Monday, March 4, 2013

I'm so sorry WHFB Daemon players

RIP Great Book

Some of the things in here just doesn't make sense.
  • There's no magic armor in the entire book, only some makeshift gift, which is also inconsistent with design fluff.
  • You cannot swap any of the gifts for armor, only subpar weapons.
  • The gifts are horribly overpriced compared to 40K.
  • The Bloodthirster is only wearing Heavy Armor, but are wearing 3+ in 40K.
  • Flying units are not the same as 40K, where you need Skyfire to shoot.  A cannon can bring about the ruin of your expensive Greater Daemon with ease.
  • There is no dispel scroll in the book.
  • The prices for some of these Locus just doesn't make ANY sense.  Some are 5 points, some are the price of the Herald itself and are nowhere near as good as the cheaper ones.
  • The prices for everything players own has increased, the prices for everything they might not decreased.  In the case of the Skull Cannon, the thing is overpowered and undercosted at the same time, probably trying to sell the damn model.
  • The design seems to be all over the place; incredibly inconsistent with its pricing:power and inconsistent with the fluff as well.

The only redeeming quality is the magic, and the funny/sad/pitiful part of it is that the magic is EXACTLY the same as the Warriors of Chaos magic that came out a month ago.  There is literally nothing different except for the Boon.

I feel truly sad for all WHFB Daemon players for this disgraceful attempt at an army book.  Although the power level of the 7th Ed. book was way up there, it was well-written and had the tons of viable options/army builds, enough so players both casual and competitive can enjoy. This new book does not.

I'm at a loss of words, I can't even say that the other designers kept Mat Ward on a leash because of the power of the previous book.  I feel that all the creative process was stripped and this book was the red-headed step child of the 40K book.  In fact, that's exactly what it feels like:  They took the 40k book, gutted it and made a hastily and poorly-made translation to the Fantasy engine.


Yrellian said...

Fellow Elf player here, I havent had too much time to look at the new daemon books except superficially, but I have to disagree with you on a certain point. I like how the magic tables are the same between WoC and Daemons, it adds consistency to it. I'm imagining there is only 1 spell that summons a nurgle magic missile (or whatever), and only 1 way to pronounce that spell. I do think that maybe, (fluff wise anyways), the daemons should be able to cast their spells a touch easier, as it is their spells. The rest of your analysis I cant comment on as I dont know 40k enough, or have not read the new codex/army book enough.

HERO said...

Sure, consistency is there, but I like diversity. That's like putting all of the Divination powers in the new Eldar book and saying that's OK.

Anonymous said...

Well all that time and money I spent on daemons is now completely wasted
It feels like they don't even think about playtesting they just write something down and call it a day.
I'm going to war machine screw GW

Meals said...

You've already bought an army. GW doesn't care what you do now...

I don't think the Daemon book is a complete failure, and I still think it has some good options to make strong armies. Yes it missed some odd things, but the ability to tune your characters each game is great, and the points decreased almost across the board. At the very least, I no longer have to care about playing the Power army and having to tone down every list I make to appease the gaming community, which is a massive win in my books!

Sean Vess said...

all they did was swap around what gaming system the army is overpowered in. Deamons will be fine in the fantasy realm.. They changed yes, but once players adapt to the change and realize that there are still some powerful combinations in the book then everyone will be sated.

Tell me you wouldn't like your Slaanesh herald on a steed inside of unit of seekers vanguarding up, moving up to the flank of some cheap chaff and then blasting them with their (always guarenteed) 2d6 str as user shooting attack.

I agree that the magic needed to be consistent. this also means that the powerful nurgle spells that make WOC almost insane these days is now accessible into your nurgle demons. Also, the lore attributes are insane.. There's a reason people take lore of life when they can to REGROW their units..

HERO said...

First point: Does that mean you think the 40K version of Demons is overpowered? I'm a bit confused on your wording. Randomness pretty much goes against the concept of min-max. Have you seen the 40K book? The units are nowhere near overpowered.

Second point: How much is that unit you're using to kill chaff? The lash itself is 50 points. Was that suggestion serious?

Third point: What amazing combos have you discovered with the WHFB version of Daemons?

Anonymous said...

Before I start the doom cycle can daemons get BRB magic stuff or are we stuck buying gifts?

What kind of lore access do we have on hand?

Has the greater daemon prices gone up or down?

Yrellian said...

I think of BRB spells as the standard "Hogwarts Education," and the races that have their own lore (ie Beastmen, Wood Elves etc) that are steeped in tradition, magic, etc have their own "national customs of spells." So I think that there is some difference from your point, as I view it was "Okay, CHAOS has these spells, but when a WoC sorcerer or a daemon cast them, they get the same spell off but they get affected differently because ones a daemon and one is a viking (hence differing lore attributes)" On a side note, by buddy just played a game with his old daemon army of Khorne and Slaanesh and found a couple things:
1) Bloodletters are not good unless they are on the charge (no staying power) which he said is fine, just wouldnt run the horde, but more of a detachment.
2) Need moar nurgle.
3) Daemonettes need Shadow magic (basically called them his elf spearmen unit) which im fine with because daemons should be a little bit more magic reliant, not full on vampire, but some influence
I do think the book is like the OnG book, as someone said earlier, but while still random, a bit more consistent than OnG

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