Monday, September 29, 2014

DE: Things are not looking too good

Stare into the void.

The rumors have been floating around the internet these days about DE are being confirmed by several sources around the world.  Let's just say that it's not looking too good so far for the Dark Kin. That's a damn shame really.

I'm still holding off until I have the book in my hand, but nothing I read so far has been great.  In short, if there's not drastic point decreases in all areas, I don't think DE will have anything going or them.

Check out the rumors here and here.  Let me sum it up for you:
  • Combat drugs offering stat boosts can be useless to decent.  I would say they're worse than the current ones.
  • Nothing looks great from the Warlord Traits.
  • No ways to take troops outside of Warriors and Wyches.
  • Raiders/Ravagers lose the ability to take Flickerfields.  This is gigantic because this means they have no protection vs. Ignore Cover now.  Even with a 5 points cost decrease, the 15 point Night Shields make them the same price they are now.
  • This also means that Ravagers lose their ability to maintain fire and reap some kind of protection from Flicker Fields.  They must hug cover at all times or continuously Jink.
  • The Glaive thing that the Succubus gets is the only form of AP2 melee outside of Incubi.  It's as if they never want us to kill SM characters.
  • All the artefacts look subpar and generally not worth it.  Most of the psychology-based stuff is wasted on ATSKNF.

A little disappointed so far, but I'll wait for the final book to do a full review.


Grim Dark Realms said...

On the other hand the new turn based pain system is awesome, deep strike by default on vehicles is sweet and if you aren't facing lots of ignores cover than jinking for 3+ is actually superb. Splinter racks affecting all splinter weapons means you can setup some pretty incredible firepower with trueborn in a raider now especially with them getting cheaper.

Everyone always focuses on the negatives a huge amount when a codex drops. Hell people thought the Tau codex updates were bad until they actually played with it.

It may still be terrible, lets give it a month before saying so though.

HERO said...

See, here's what I don't really understand. Why say give it a month when you already know what to expect? Unless there's dramatic cost decreases to Trueborn + Splinter Carbines for example, no one is actually going to take them seriously

I don't see DS as a truly reliable way to deliver firepower where you need it. DE still have poisoned shots from what we know, and thus we need living and breathing targets to shoot. Lances are not incredible vs. the vast majority of armored forces out there, and you need to be able to bust open the improved vehicle damage chart before you can access the goodies inside.

Don't confuse me with "everyone". If you follow this blog or read any of my material you know I think about this game in much greater detail than most. That's why it bothers me when people say "give it time". To me, that's the difference between an idiot and someone who actually has a clue. No amount of time is going to change a Huskblade's AP3 to 2.

FallenTurtle said...

I'm looking forward to it as a dark eldar player. The turn based pfp is awesome. Nightshields grant stealth+shrouded, so if you're hugging cover you're getting a 2+ cover save without jinking. Mandrakes are actually useful as blasters as their guns are automatic and have soul blaze (a personal favorite of mine from playing sallys)
Webway portals are 35 point drop pods that don't scatter (that your eldar allies can use btw.. Hello Deep striking Fire dragons behind tough tanks!)

All in all, I'm looking forward to it and I'll do my own review on it when I get the book.

HERO said...

Where do you see that Night Shields grant Stealth + Shrouded? Everything that I have read so far indicates that it gives Stealth and that's it. That means that it does not stack with Night Fight, only gives cover bonuses and thus, becomes susceptible to Ignore Cover fire. Compare this with the previous Raider which had the option for Flickerfields (60+10) vs. the current Night Shields (55+15), they come out to be the same price, but the new Raider offers far less variable protection. You now have no protection vs. Ignore Cover vs. before, for the same price. Compare a 50% chance to save vs. a 66% chance to save, and this is a huge loss in the current meta where Tau and Eldar are on the table.

I look forward to your review, and I hope you write it with the previous book in mind, as projections for how the current book will play in the current metagame.

FallenTurtle said...

I read it in one of the earlier translations someone did from the german text. even if that's not the case it's still worth it. It might be a few points cheaper as well as I've been reading conflicting rumors on it's points. There's also not a lot of ignore cover weapons in my meta.

That helm artifact will be good vs all these psychics. Sure vs eldar they can just chuck a dice, but force enough perils and even demon summoning will think twice.

quaade said...

The Glaive thing that the Succubus gets is the only form of AP2 melee outside of Incubi. It's as if they never want us to kill SM characters.
It's rude to answer your own questions :p

With how Orcs shaped up, it looks more and more like 7th will be the "Xenos as NPC races for teh Herowic Spaesh Mareenes to beat up" edition.

I wonder/hope their next CEO can seperate the accounting department and the games design department before GW collapses.

I'm glad I've got other games I can play while I sit this edition out.

HERO said...

Yup, how I would have designed the PfP should be that the Dark Eldar are the strongest in the early phases of the game and get weaker as the battle sustains. Shit, I would say that even if they went first in every game would be fine as they can be right up in your face and apply pressure hard and fast. The fluff and style of the army is to be extremely lethal and precise, right now they are not that at all.

Grim Dark Realms said...

I have not followed this blog before so forgive me if I am unfamiliar with you personally.

I can clearly see that reducing a Huskblade from AP3 to 2 is a straight up nerf., Its worse, no doubt about. What I always struggle to see at this point (and perhaps this makes me a 'slow-learner?') is the overall effect all of the changes together will have on my games. There are just too many factors in chaotic 40k games to work it out on paper. I think a lot of people fail at this and make sweeping, dismissing statements about something without really understanding the full ramifications of everything working together.

Maybe you are the exception and genuinely have got it right through careful critical analysis. In which case I apologise because then it's me going around making the sweeping statement 'give it time' because I made the mistake of seeing another 'too early to tell' negative post.

archied said...

I was cautiously optimistic waiting for the new book, but as things stand im really hoping this is all an elaborate hoax. You hit the nail right on the head, barring the baron with eldar allies combo, the army needed serious help. and it only seems to have got weaker. I dont even know if drastic points reductions (yeah, right) would turn this around for me at this point.

The big hit for me is reavers, was the flyby attack really so hard to grasp or that broken? Yeah, sometimes they were a pain for our footslogging ork opponent to deal with or whatever, but most of the time i used them theyd get one decent bladevane attack in then get charged by something and killed. Now i have to get in combat with them to use the bladevanes!?

archied said...

i wouldve liked to see them more able to use fear as a weapon. the problem with that being GW's little darling space marines would be immune as usual, thus rendering the whole thing largely pointless.

Mike m said...

I only allied De to eldar. But now I'm stuck with no troops. All I had was baron and 10 converted skyboarders. It wasn't much but my eldar have a spiderman hobgoblin theme so they fit in nice. But now... unless I get a succubus on skyboard, guess that theme is shot

Grim Dark Realms said...

I too am not very sure where my anti-tank is going to come from in the new codex. I have relied on Ravagers and Haywire wyches so far and it sounds like both of them will be ineffective now.

Were there rumours of Wyches being able to dodge in overwatch? If they can do that then I may still field them but otherwise they will have no role anymore.

I hope there is more to the WWP than just one unit gets to deepstrike without scatter. I'd be happy if you could get it pretty easily on a few units in the army. Then you could take advantage of deep striking raiders/venoms and choose to do your 'alpha strike' turn 2/3. As you say though, that puts you at the mercy of the reserve rolls which isn't great.

Another hope would be raiders/venoms as fast attack choices which isn't too unlikely given the direction of the last few codexes. Being able to pick up extra venoms without buying a unit for them first is cool (especially for the rumoured 6FA choice special detachment) and it will allow for some fun shenanigans with Eldar allies.

Lots of hope, plenty of despair at this point though.

xzandrate said...

I think it's time for ATSKNF to go. We have 5 phases now? Move, Psychic, Shoot, Assault, Morale/regroup? One special rule ignores one of those almost entirely, and what interaction it does have it modifies to eliminate the negative effects.

So how about we gain 'And They Shall Know No Pain'; we only take wounds from weapons that were double our toughness, but anything that has an AP better than our armour save we ignore on a 2+. I'd love to ignore the shooting phase, so why not, it's not like shooting is part of the core rules.

rahul verma said...

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Arindam at Foreseegame said...

i have got plenty of emotional remarks with loads of mixed reactions, but to me the overall concept is good. When you are going to built something new, there are people always to give you different level of reaction. Otherwise, there is no meaning of creativity.

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