Wednesday, February 9, 2011

New Grey Knight rumors and analysis

This is going to be a horrendously long post but stay with me.  I'm sure you'll love the rumors and I'm even more sure you'll like my analysis of these rumors.  Keep in mind that Grey Knights were my first army and I love them to death.  However, everyone and their mother around me wants to play GKs when they come out and that in itself is off-putting.  Bah.. whatever, here I go.  Check this out (my stuff will be in red):

Army Wide Rules:
  • Aegis: Psykers targeting a squad with Aegis suffer -1 Ld. Psykers within 12" of a dreadnought with Reinforced Aegis suffer -4 Ld.
  • And They Shall Know No Fear
  • Combat Squads
  • Psyker Pilots
  • Brotherhood of Psykers
  • Psyker Mastery Levels: Character can use 1 psychic power per turn for each level (so 2 powers per turn at level 2).
  • Preferred Enemy: Demons
Pretty standard things here save for Aegis.  The -1 leadership for most Ld.10 models doesn't really change much.  The Dreadnought with Reinforced Aegis might be pretty handy to bring.. but I wouldn't really feel comfortable bringing a Dread just for that reason.  If anything, he'll be packing some Psycannon action.  Preferred Enemy Daemons just makes me sad for Daemon players and the Psyker Mastery Levels are a interesting addition.

  • Nemesis Force Halberds: +1 Initiative.
  • Psycannon: Str 7 AP 4 36" Assault 2/Heavy 4, Rending
  • Incinerator: Str 5 AP 4 Template, Rending
  • Personal Teleporter: Unit can move as though they have a jump pack. Once per game, the unit may move 30", but may not assault afterwards.

Now, the NFW here is noted as being +1I.  This makes all Grey Knights I5 basically and with their higher level HQs I6 and above.  No information no whether or not these will be Power Weapons or what not, but I'm definitely thinking that the Terminators will be PW and the GMs will be Force Weapons.  Don't quote me on this, this is just my guess.  Word on the street is that Psycannons are +20 pts, the basic GK is 20 pts, GKT at 40 pts and Paladins starting at 55 pts.  It's also noted that no Grey Knights can have Storm Shields apparently.  The Psycannons looks to be absolutely devastating because they're better versions of Assualt Cannons on vehicles.  Rending on the Incinerator is also pretty bad ass and the Personal Teleporter is very interesting.  Last minute contests anyone?

Psychic Powers:
  • Hammer Hand: +1 strength in Close Combat
+1 in CC makes me think that NFW is definitely going to be S4.
  • Warp Quake: Any deepstriking unit that lands within 12" suffers automatic mishap.
Quite possibly the end to any DS army (such as Daemons and BA).  No one can afford to mishap.. that's just how the game operates.  The same applies to Deathwing or anyone else thinking they can get in close to Grey Knights.  Definitely not with this.
  • Holocaust: S5 AP - Large Blast 12"
The 12" here means that it has 12" range.  There's no such thing as a 12" large blast template and if there was, I'll probably not play this game.  Apoc template size things in normal games just shouldn't happen.  Ever.
  • Quicksilver: Unit becomes Initiative 10
Useful in getting the jump on anything thinking they're faster than you.
  • Warp-Rift: Template that auto removes models from play
It's supposed to be a template sized JotWW.  Make a I test for all models covered or be removed from the game.  It's insanely awesome, but at the same time, it's not 24" range and has as many options as JotWW.  This is a standard psychic shooting attack.
  • The Summoning: A single friendly unit that is anywhere on the table is placed within 6" of the librarian and counts as deepstriking.
Sure, why not.
  • Smite: As C:SM
  • Might of Titan: Beginning of librarians assault phase. Unit within 6" gains +1 str and extra D6 armour pen vs vehicles. Bonus is cumulative with hammerhand.
S6 is back for everyone that has a GK Librarian!  The S6 + 2d6 to armor pen is also quite amazing vs. any armored vehicle in the game.  No more will you be bogged down in combat with walkers!
  • The Shrouding: Opponents shooting phase. All units within 6" gain stealth (minimum 5+ cover in the open).
As long as you're not a bad at using cover, most Grey Knight units on the walking front will receive a 3++ cover save.  You can do a lot with this ability as long as your units are in reach.

  • Mind Blades: Start of any assault phase. One enemy unit within 6" loses 1 toughness for the rest of the assault phase.
Pretty sure that means that you're S6 and he's T3 means instant-death threats to anything there is.  Will also bring down T5 models to Fist kill range.  Thunderwolves beware.
  • Vortex of Doom: As C:SM
  • Sanctury: Enemy assault phase. Enemy units wishing to assault any Grey Knight within 12" of librarian must make a difficult AND dangerous terrain test.
Beautiful. This makes perfect sense and I'm glad they have this ability.

  • Psychic Communion (Grandmaster and Captain only): Take a psychic test. If passed, you may modify any reserve rolls by + or -1.
Talk to me oh lord of lords!  I would assume you cast this on turn 1 and on turn 2, you reserves come in at 3+.  You can also use this to delay your chances of coming if you want to get the jump on your opponent's reserves.  Example:  You delay your reserves by 1 and next turn, your opponent gets his reserves to come in. You can now get your reserves to come in on your opponents and go to town with shooting.

  • Heroic Sacrafice (Champion only): During any assault phase and when the "chaplain" dies. If the psychic test is passed, make one attack against any one model that is in base to base with the champion. If the attack hits, the model is removed as a casualty with no saves. If it misses, there is no effect.
I heard that the Champion only has 1W and costs like 100 points.  Not sure if it's worth it, but he has some crazy things like this that might take down Abaddon in 1 go.  Not a very heroic way for them to die, but I guess this is one of those things that'll piss your opponents off.

  • Cleansing Flame (Purifiers only): Start of any assault phase. All enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer a wound on a 4+ before any blows are struck with saving throws allowed. Casualties count towards combat resolution.
Amazing for horde-like armies imo.  If they try to boggle you down in combat and upset your chances of victory by numerical advantage, this spell evens out the playing field.
  • Astral Aim (Purgation Squad only): Shooting Phase. Unit and attached characters may fire at any unit in range and regardless of line of sight. Target automatically gets a 4+ cover save that cannot be modified.
Imagine Purgation squads with max Psycannons unloading behind your Land Raider and shooting through the vehicle into your opponent's Defiler in open field.  Tears of happiness or sadness?  I think I see both.

  • Reconstruction (techmarines only): Beginning of techmarine's movement. Re-roll any repair roll.
Too many psychic abilities already imo.

  • Fortitude (Vehicle only): At the start of Grey Knight player's turn, removes any shaken or stunned results. 
Sure, extra armor can step aside since this makes it so your vehicles as Possessed... but retail BS4 because they're awesome like that.

  • Zone of Banishment(Captain Stern only): During Stern's assault phase. All models (friend and foe, but NOT stern) within 6" make a strength test or are removed from play. Demons must re-roll successful tests. 
Hysterical.  S-test or GTFO.  I guess Stern's psychic abilities have grown since last we seen.

Here's what the supposed force org is supposed to look like:

Special Characters: 
Lord "Draigo" LR cost. 
Grand Master "Mordrack" Storm Raven Cost 
Brother Captain Stern 
Castellan Crowe 

Inquisitor Corteaz 
Inquisitor Karamazov 
Inquisitor Valeria

Grand Master 
Brother Captain 
Brotherhood Champion 
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor 
Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor 
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor 

Purifier Squad 
Venerable Dreadnought 
Paladin Squad 
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband 

Grey Knight Terminator Squad 
Special Upgrade Character - Justicar Thawn 
Grey Knights Strike Squad (the regular GK's) 



Heavy Support 
Purgation Squad 
Nemesis Dreadknight (MC) 
Land Raider (and variants, including redeemer)

Look at how many freaking HQ choices there are!  Here's what I know so far from browsing through Warseer:

Lord Draigo: WS 7 BS 6 S 5 T 5 W 4 I 5 A 5 Ld 10 Sv 2+ Points 275
Wargear: Titan Sword (str 10 vs demons and psykers), Storm Shield, Frag, Krak, Psyk-out grenades
Options: ?
Special Rules: Lord of Titan (take Paladins as troops), Psychic Mastery 2, Eternal Warrior
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Psychic Communion, Cleansing Flame

Grand Master: ?
Wargear: ?
Options: ?
Special Rules:
Psyker Level 1
Make Paladins troops.
Pick D3 Units and give them a special rule:
1) Makes them scoring (kinda neat for dread and or elite paladins)
2) Makes them re roll 1s to wound all game
3) Makes them have counter attack USR.
4) Makes them Scout
Note: All these units are affected by the one choice.
Psychic Powers: Hammerhand, Psychic Communion

Librarian: WS ? BS ? S ? T ? W ? I ? A ? Ld ? Sv ? 150 Points
Wargear: ?
Options: Upgrade to Psyker Mastery 3 +50 points. Take additional psychic powers for +5 points each.
Special Rules: Psyker Mastery 2
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor
Inquisitor: WS 4 BS 4 S 3 T 3 W 3 I 4 A 3 Ld 10 Sv ? 25 Pts
Wargear: Something exactly like a Dijin Blade, Forcefield, enemy takes save vs wound or die (like lucas the trickster)
Options: Psycher Mastery 1?
Special Rules: Stubborn, Independent Character, Henchmen Retinue (3-12)

You can find the rest out here.  As there's way too much information for me to post in one go, but I want to talk about the important ones (for me at least).

Grand Masters can make Paladins troops and can make another unit count as scoring.  This means he can make one of your big T7 4W 2+/4++ Dreadknights count as scoring.  Giving a unit like Paladins re-roll 1s to wound for the entire game is a very big deal, considering how all of them have power weapons.  Counter-attack is always welcome and making a huge unit of scoring Paladins Scout is just hysterical.  D3 units means if you have a Grand Master in your army with a big unit of Paladins and a Librarian in 1 unit, you can all start 18" away from the enemy and get some 3++ cover because of Shrouding.  If each unit has to have the ability, then start the GM somewhere else and have the Librarian go in there.  In fact, since GMs are Lv.2 Psykers with some spells already, can't they also buy up to more spells?  All this will be revealed in time.  Oh, and Scouting LRCs loaded with Paladins are also a good thing.

Lord Draigo is 275 points for a bunch of cool and fluffy abilities.  I'm not quite sure what his other abilities are, but from just reading the ones above, I'm not too impressed.  Depending on how many points a Grand Master is, I'd rather have 2x of them than Draigo.. especially if I can give out USRs and take different psychic abilities.  Most SCs can't really be customized so that's another thing to note.

I also don't know anything about Stern so that kinda sucks.  If there was more to him and he's affordable, then I'll probably take him as well since his psychic ability is just hysterical.  Something else to note here is that the GK Librarians are Lv.2 Psykers that can buy up to Lv.3.  Being able to cast 3 spells a turn rivals that of Tiberius, Eldrad and Mephiston.. making GK Psykers some of the most potent to ever exist (so far).

Paladin Squad
Paladin Terminator: WS 5 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 4 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 2+/4++ Points 55
Squad Size: 1 - ? 
Weapons: Storm Bolter, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Nemesis Force Halberd
Options: Psychout grenades, Brotherhood Banner, Nemesis Demon Hammer, Pair of Nemesis Falchions, Nemesis Warding Stave, Psycannon, Incinerators, Psylencers, Apothecary, Psybolt Ammo, Master craft any weapon +5 points.
Special Rules: Psyker Level 1
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Holocaust

The 2W Terminators are here!  Look at the options and note that I have no idea what they do.  In fact, no one does.. not even the person that posted the rumors.  I'm assuming the Daemon Hammer is a TH that strikes at I vs. Daemons.. the Falchions are Lightning Claw-equivs and the Brotherhood Banner is either a Chapter Banner or the Wolf Standard equiv.  Psychout Grenades is a mystery and the Nemesis Warding Stave sounds like psychic protection of some sort.  Maybe -4 Leadership for psykers just like the Reinforced Aegis?  Apothecary makes these bad boys FNP and Psybolt Ammo is probably just AP4 w/o Invul saves.  Essentially 60ppm with Master-crafted weapons at WS5 and no options for Storm Shields, these are some of the most hardcore marines to ever hit the field.

Grey Knight Terminator Squad
Grey Knight Terminator: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 2 LD 9 Sv 2+/5++ 40 Points
Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Weapon, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades.
Options: Psybolt ammo
Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 1
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand

These guys are troops and clock in at 40ppm.  Enough said here.  Oh wait, they come with Frag and Krak Grenades.  This means they can charge in cover and lol all over other Termies who can't do the same thing.

Grey Knights Strike Squad (the regular GK's)
Grey Knight: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 1 LD 8 Sv 3+ 20 Points
Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Sword.
Options: Psybolts, Personal Teleporters
Special Rules: Psyker Level 1
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Warp Quake.

At 20ppm, the standard PAGK is back and better.  Well, I'm not 100% sure if they're better since they're not WS5 and no True Grit, but we'll see how they function in time.

Nemesis Dreadknight (MC): WS 5 BS ? S 7 T 7 W 4 I ? A 3 Sv 2+/4++ 130 Points
Wargear: Heavy Psycannon, Super Incinerator, 2 close combat weapons.
Options: Personal Teleporter +75 Points
Special Rules: Monsterous Creature, Deepstrike, Psychic Mastery 1
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Holocaust.

130 points of T7 2+/4++ and 4 wounds.  Pretty much the same thing as a Wraithlord but has its own invul save and the ability to teleport for an outrageous amount of points.  Imagine having Grand Masters to put scoring on 3 of these and having them teleport around in late game.


Brotherhood Champion:
74441*10 2+
Infantry, Character
Artificer, Frag, Krack, Iron Halo, storm bolter
Anointed Blade: Nemesis Force Sword, re roll failed wounds.

Titans Herald: AKA Litanies of Hate.

* The perfect Warrior (instead of an attack value, makes special cc attack ability):
Sword Storm: Makes one A on each model in B2B.
Blade Shield: Does not attack, but re roll failed saves.
Rapier Strike: Makes D3 Attacks (+1 if charged) at I10 but must be against an IC or MC.

Heroic Sacrifice

100pts Base
Digital Weapons 5pts
Empyriean Mines 10pts
Psybolt ammo 5pts


RayJ said...

I'm in love. Is it April yet?

Unknown said...

This sooo makes me want to take a Haemy with a Crucible of malediction on my Dark eldar army just to see how many Vehicles it can take out :)

GK's seem real scary!

Anonymous said...

Thank god I was born in April

Michael Hogan said...

I could be wrong, but I believe Nemesis Force Halberds are an upgrade to the normal Nemesis Force weapons. Possibly 3-5 points a model, and it simply adds +1 initiative.

I could be wrong, but that is my interpretation.

Michael Hogan said...

Sounding a bit repetitive here, but I also think that all Grey Knights are S4 by default, with Hammerhand making them S5 with a successful cast. A Librarian power can boost this once again, but it is only on one unit and from the Librarian. Sorry for the double post.

Anonymous said...

So loltastically broken, this is a desperate attempt to sell models and is looking quite insane imo.

Valegorn said...

were PAGK always LD 8? This just seems dumb to me, if you're an elite army (small army size) you'd at the very least have a base LD of 9.

Then again, my understand of game mechanics is meager compared to those who designed the codex.

HERO said...

Grey Knights were fearless before.. and that's what they should of been. An elite fighting force of the Emperor's finest whose sole purpose is the elimination of mankind's greatest enemies should be FEARLESS!!!!!!!

Valegorn said...

Well said! Lets hope they stay that way, I would imagine they would be fearless, although fearless sucks in 5th edition. I hope they're fearless that doesn't have to roll extra armor saves if they lose combat, they're Grey Knights, they should have a rule that says "regardless of the outcome, GK's always win close combat ;)

Anonymous said...

1, 2, 3, now lets all yell "POWER CREEP!"

There models do look cool though. :)

RayJ said...

I don't really understand the comments on power creep, cheese, or brokenness here. it looks to me like the GKs were intentionally brought down a notch in their basic form to make room for these awesome new abilities.

We can assume that the highest leadership model in a unit will be sued for their psychic tests, making it harder for them to gain these boosts than normal psykers. Basically it's enough to be reliable but not fool-proof (assuming their 'Sergeants' are LD 9).

Right now this stuff looks pretty good. There are some things to be cautious about, but I don't see anything listed here that I can't deal with with my Space Wolf and Dark Angel (Deathwing) armies.

They look like they will give out a lot of hurt. They also look like their model count will be lower than my Deathwing. Stop crying... you should be pleased if this army is strong enough to compete at the top levels without overwhelming the tournament scene...

HERO said...

Codex creep is indeed an illusion.

Duke of Earl said...

5th edition codex are all pretty balanced. With the FAQ updates Black Templars and Dark Angels are in the running. Eldar, Orks and Tau? Well who cares about the Xenos anyway?

Anonymous said...

Seen the leeked pics of the grey knights yet.....? Awesomes

Anonymous said...

Hero they should not be fearless cause fearless is against them as a rule. ATSKNF is better than fearless any time. Especially on CC capable units like GK, BT etc

HERO said...

Yeah... I saw the pictures.. but I'm not fond of the Dreadknight thing at all. The thing looks like a mix between Voltron and the Powerloader from Aliens. I'm not impressed to be honest.

Bran Redmaw said...

It looks good but as yet nothing is a hundred percent certain and already people are bitching and putting it down. Fearless in 5th ed sucks balls anyway so i couldnt care less they would be better being stubborn if anything but i would rather see my expensive troops retreat then turn round and start fighting again instead of being fearless and end up being wiped out.

Anonymous said...

I would hate it if the grey knights loose their str 6 as it is one of the best things ever and nemesis force weapons becoming plain power weapons sucks every thing is pretty good besides the retarded halberd. I may be getting too wound up about this as it is only some crappy roomers that some one got out of the trash.

Anonymous said...

You forgot str 6 power weapons and artificer armor on base troops. Also there aren't going to be any inquisition in the army so no ordo w/e or imperial troopers. This brings up the question of whether a non inquisition army will have assassins, i don't think so. Also unless I'm mistaken i think Storm Raven is heavy, at least for BA. Also Psycannon sounds about right, given my source.

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