Wednesday, March 16, 2011

PGK Battle Reports

Updated: 12:24am PST, 3-18-11, Game 2 posted!!!

This will be a collection of battle reports of me playing games with Pure Grey Knights.  I will be trying out a lot of different lists over the next couple of weeks to get a better feel of the book.  As always, I'll be pulling PGK lists from my tactica and playtesting my theories so I can turn them into law.  Keep in mind that feedback is very important to me, as well as discussions about tactics and strategy.  In terms of questions, please refer to what game you're talking about.  An example would be:  "In game #1, you did this.." etc.

Game #1
2K Grey Knights vs. Blood Angels

My list consisted of 3x 5x Paladins w/ 2x MC Psycannons, a large squad of Paladins fully kitted with Draigo and Librarian.
His list had a Stormraven w/ Librarian, Honor Guard and Furioso, 2x Tactical squads with Plasma Cannon/Plasma Gun, 2x Devastators w/ Missiles, and 2 Assault Squads w/ Priests and Meltas.

His list is pretty balanced whereas mine is filled with 2W Terminators.

We roll for mission and deployment and we get Spearhead deployment and Annihilation.  My Grand Strategy gives me 3 Scouting Paladin squads (including Draigo's) and I advance up the field with the closest deployment.  I also win first turn and the fun begins.

Turn 1 didn't see much action because I was getting close to him.  Since I won deployment, I chose to go in the area with the heaviest terrain/giving him the least amount of terrain.  I had like 4 bushes to cover in whereas he only had 1 big patch.  Anyways, I advance with nothing in range.

He keeps everything in the back and begins shooting at me with his stuff.  The Plasma Cannon overheats from 1 Tac squad and Shrouding w/ the 3+ cover saves 2 wounds from another.  The SR fires at Draigo's squad with a TL Lascannon and I block it with Draigo's face.

Turn 2 sees me advance more into the woods and I use 3 of my Paladin squads to reduce a Tactical squad to 4 dudes (forced a lot of saves, he didn't do so well).  His return fire puts 2 separate wounds on 2 Paladins from 1 squad and that's about it.  His scatters were laughable and I save all but one of his Krak missiles and a Paladin goes down.

Turn 3, I advance further and shoot down his SR with my Psycannons.  Combined fire from the other squad puts his Honor Guard down to 3 dudes, and his wounded Tactical squad runs off the board after another wound.  On his turn, he moves everything back as I'm getting awfully close except for the assault squads which were behind buildings, well for the most part.

Turn 4, I move up more and shoot at one of the assault squads that was peaking behind a building and forced a couple of wounds.  He saves the majority of them and he assaults me with a 8-man squad of ASM and a Priest.  I test for Sanctuary with my Librarian and he's out of range to hood it.  He test for Hammerhand and he fails to stop it.  Now I'm going first with Halberds w/ WS5 S5 and I kill 6 dudes including his Priest.  He attacks back and kills one, I swing with my Hammer, killing 2 more.  He loses by 6, runs, I can't chase so I move next to him.

We call it here.  I lose 2 Paladins from separate squads, he loses a Tactical squad, a Storm Raven, a squad that's running off the board and most likely, a lot more.

Post-game Analysis:

I think this game was in my favor because I had a favorable mission, superior deployment and took advantage of cover very well.  The map had a lot of trees in the middle and that type of firepower combined with Shrouding was too much for my opponent.  His list also didn't have any big threats to my 2W Terminators.  Against more AP1-2 weaponry and S8+ weapons, I think my list would of suffered more.  Overall, I think the list did what it's supposed to do; advance, shoot, kill things in assault.  In the future, I will probably reserve one of my Paladin squads and come in via DS or Outflank.  That would of caused my opponent to think a little more than backing up into a corner.  The one thing to note is that the list is extremely slow and Eldar armies w/ a lot of lances will have a field day with it.


Game #2
2K Grey Knights vs. Blood Angels

This is a rematch between me and my friend using a different BA list.

Hist list:

Reclusiarch TDA, 5x TH/SS in LRC, 5x ASM in LC/TLPC Razor, 2x 10x ASM w/ PF/Meltas w/ Sanguinary Priests w/ LClaw, 2x Baal Dreads, 2x 5x Devs w/ Missiles

My list:
Grand Master, Blind + Rad nades w/ Skulls, 7x Paladins, Apoth, BBanner, Psybolts, 2x MC Psycannons, 3x 10x GKSS in Rhinos w/ 2x Psycannons, 3x Rifleman Dreads w/ Psybolts

The mission we rolled was Annihilation and the deployment was Pitched Battle.  I won the roll to go first again so I deployed my stuff in some ruins.  I choose to give Scout (rolled a 3 on d3 again) to 2x of my GKSS squads and for my Paladins (they were in reserve for DS).  As for the servo-skulls, they were deployed in the middle exactly 12" from each other so I had a huge bubble of options.  Scout moves sees 2x of the GKSS squads relocate to match my opponent's deployment and his scouting Baals push up a little and pops smoke.

Turn 1 sees most of my army relocate to the right of the battlefield.  One of the GKSS squads disembarks in cover and lays down some fire on the Baal Pred.  Combined shooting from that squad and a Rifledread detonates the ammo bin instead one of the scouting Baals and it goes up in flames.  My other shots from the Psycannon and Rifledreads rips off the TLAC from his LRC.

His turn 1 sees his Baal advance and make one of my servo-skulls disappear.  He lays down some fire on my exposed GKSS squad and I take 2 of my guys off the table.  The Razor shoots at my Rifledread and fails to do anything.  The LRC moves up 12" and pops smokes and the rest of his army flies up a little closer while hugging cover from his vehicles.  His one Dev squad that had LoS shot this turn, but epically failed to do anything.

Turn 2 sees one of my Rhinos race up and I disembark some Psycannons to shoot at his LRC.  Paladins do not arrive this turn and all other GKSS stood still and took aim.  Too bad aiming didn't really help and combined shooting from the Psycannons do no damage to his Baal or LRC.  My Rifledreads on the far left try  for the Baal but it was blocked pretty nicely from the LRC so a 3+ cover was in order.  He passes his cover save but his Razorback was not as lucky.  My far right Rifle puts 2 pens into the Razor's hull and blows apart its weapons.  With 2 of my GKSS squads exposed for assault, I get a little nervous.

His turn was extremely bloody in terms of combat.  Combat was so fierce that his Devastators moved up to get a better position because LoS was killing his field of fire (more realistically, they just wanted to watch).  His LRC moves up and immobilizes my right most Rifleman while it unloads his Reclusiarch and TH/SS Termies.  One of his ASM squads jumps over a building and into assault range of my GKSS squad.  I misjudged distance a little bit and they're just within 6" of my first guy.  Gunfire opens here and there and a few Grey Knights go down.  The Reclusiarch and his squad charges my top GKSS and the other GKSS squad sees combat with his ASM squad.  I Hammerhand with both squads and brace for impact.  The top squad of GKSS (already down to 6 dudes from shooting) takes 3 more wounds from the Reclusiarch and the Justicar swings with his hammer.  It connects with 2 wounds on the Blood Angels hero and he fails one of his precious invulnerable saves.  Splat.  It goes without saying that the other GKSS were butchered to the last man by the TH/SS Termies.  Assault on the other squad sees 7 dead on my side and 3 dead on his.  I lose by 4, ATSKNF, and I lose 1 more Knight.

Turn 3 has the Paladins come down in the middle of the battlefield in cover with no scatter.  I pass my difficult terrain and unpack my last squad of GKSS from their Rhinos to open fire on the Terminators.  Combined fire from everything on the field except for 1 Rifledread puts a crap ton of saves on the 5x Termies.  They save them all.  My rightmost Rifleman opens up no the Baal Pred and turns it into a slag of molten armor.  Assault sees my last Knight fall to the ASM squad and I brace myself for the impact of next round.

His turn produced a lot of good shooting as his ASM squad, Dev squads and MM from the LRC drops 2 Rhinos and a Rifleman Dread.  Melta fire from the top ASM squad rips both arms off a Rifledread and before charging and killing it.  His TH/SS squad also charges my big unit of Paladins but they get shit on by Rad Grenades + Hammerhand and I6 Halberds.  Four die in the first second and the last one kills a Paladin before he himself gets silenced by the Grand Master.  I consolidate closer to his ASM squad that killed the Rhino so I'm in charge range next turn.

On my turn 4, I pack up my GKSS squad in my Rhino and run 12" away from his ASM squad on top.  My Paladin squad moves a inch away from his ASM squad on the bottom and lay into them with S5 Stormbolters and Psycannons.  3+ armor and FNP saves everything there before I assault in.  HH fails to cast on a 11 but I still manage to tear through everything in my way.  All the Blood Angels fall dead before the Paladins and the Priest himself fights for his life before getting slapped by a Daemonhammer.  I consolidate towards his LRC.

On his turn, he moves the LRC up and misses with his MM.  Hurricane Bolters do no damage to the Paladins and concentrated fire from the Devastators don't kill any Paladins either.  His ASM squad moves closer to my Paladins but is out of range of my assault.

Turn 5 sees me move my last squad of GKSS up and unload on a Dev squad.  Combined fire from my last Rifledread and the GKSS puts down 3 members from a Dev squad and my Paladins move against his LRC.  Psycannon fire rips the MM off the LRC and the assault with the S10 Hammer glances it with Stunned (he moved 12").

With his last try, everything in his army pours into the Paladins and one of them goes down to a Meltagun from the ASM squad.  They charge, I pop HH and between the Brotherhood Banner giving me +1 attack, Rad Grenades taking away 1 Toughness, the I6 Halberds rips through every single Battle Brother before they even get to swing.  I inflicted 11 wounds with my WS5 Paladins needing 3s and 2s.  We call the game here in my favor because he had nothing left that can touch the Paladins reliably.

Post-game Analysis:

Up until the Paladins entered combat, everything was going pretty good for him.  I lost 2 units of GKSS to his assaults early and my vehicles were in ruins.  As soon as the Grand Master and his bodyguard intervened, everything changed.  Marines just melt to I6 Force Halberds and I soaked up an insane amount of damage from the remnants of his army.  As long as I have the Paladins left as a anchor unit, and my opponent doesn't have enough low AP S8+ weapons left, I feel very comfortable in taking the game in force.  God knows that Blood Angels are one of the best armies to take damage because of their 3+ and FNP, but that just doesn't do anything to I6 NFWs.  I almost feel that the assault nature of the army (BA) is rendered useless because of the Pally layout.  Blind Grenades takes away your extra attack on the charge, Rad Grenades makes you T3 vs. my S5, I6 Halberds means your FC means nothing and my 2W FNP Terminators will just take regular attacks like they're nothing.  The entire squad's dead before they strike, and that's before my Grand Master even gets to swing.


Dingareth said...

Not to mention it sounds like you played against a bit of an easy list...

Sea Dragon said...

Well played in game 1. That said I do think you will have to be careful with a Paladin army like that. 2x Devastator with Lascannons would have caused you a whole lot more trouble. I'd even be willing to go for 1 x Devastator with Lascannons over 2 with ML's.

That said the game looks like it was an unbalanced list against a balanced list. As a result it still could have gone either way.

Can I ask why you didn't deepstrike some stuff in this game? Especially if you have managed to seize the well covered board sections having a unit to arrive from deep strike and put the fire on your opponents fire support elements that are sure to cause trouble.

Finally a theoretical question for yourself, how do you anticipate countering fast armies in KP missions? Or armies with lots of units like Fire Dragons/True born that can unleash impressive amounts of S8 AP1/2 firepower for minimal cost at a very specific time?


HERO said...

@Sea, you're right. It was a balanced list vs. a unbalanced list. My list was all 2W Terminators and I don't think his "balanced" list can fight something like that, especially with all the 3+ cover. This just shows you that people need to move more towards gearing of plasma and the like. I didn't DS for 2 reasons, 1, I wanted to see how much damage I can sustain while walking and applying damage. Besides, the middle looked extremely safe for me whereas DS into 2 Tacticals w/ Plasma Cannons in mostly open terrain was not ideal.

I would imagine DSing all my Pallies + outflanking on all sides will surround and cause problems for Eldar.. but by then they should already anticipate such a strategy. D/Eldar will be hard to deal with regardless.

For example, the list that I used has 6 kps including Draigo and the Librarian. My DE army will just run away, avoid combat and shoot enough Lances into the smaller squads until there's nothing left. That's the idea at least.

Sea Dragon said...

Hero, this has occurred to me as well. My largest army is Eldar and I've played consistently with it for 10 years now. My most common opponent is Dark Eldar.

Quite frankly the Razorwing and Ravager he runs with disintegrators and the missiles and SC on the razorwing scares me. With 9 shots coming from each Ravager and a good first strike range they are going to be able to race around cover and then alpha strike.

I really do think that holding your Grey Knights in reserves as long as possible and going for the mass deepstrike is the way to deal with Dark Eldar. Psybolt upgraded weapons and Psycannons will tear their vehicles a new one. I might even be tempted to break into combat squads with large units. Allowing multiple firing resolutions to bring down the transports and mobile units ASAP.

Once that's done the game becomes more even because with Halberds there is little GK's have to fear in close combat due to the speed they strike.

Splinter fire can be very potent in a DE army however that shouldn't be too much cause for concern and due to large numbers of lances and disintegrators I'd probably still roll with more termies over Apothecary upgrades.

Anonymous said...

Yeah it was my list. Well fought by hero here. He had a plan for his force and executed it. Honestly, BA in power armor just can't stand up to GK termies. Which isn't unexpected.

It was a mismatch of epic proportions list wise :P

I did get to learn a lot tho, Usually I fire frags into termies to force more saves etc. I realized after the first round of shooting that the 2W varients need to eat kraks, which cuts down on the amount of saves I can throw at them.

All in all it was a good one, I just think Termies at init 6 > blood angel jumpers :P

Dalinair said...

This type of ultra cheese just means more and more people will refuse to play against them in friendly matches. If I charge a unit with my squad of 10 jump marines with a priest costing about 350 points then I expect it to die, unless its a squad that costs about the same in which case, you would think a tie.

To see them get utterly butched like that without barely getting a hit back means BA cant play like they are meant to anymore and you have to go shooting which it seems you also cant, due to cheesy psychic powers giving out 3+ invulnerable saves.

Im sure the sky isnt falling completely and there is a way for them to win but i bet not without tailoring your list to beat them, your not going to do it with a balanced one which to me is the whole point of the game.

Sea Dragon said...

Dalinair, this is a complete overreaction. The list taken there is an unbalanced one and ultimately one that won't do well in Tournament play due to having a weakness against so many armies out there.... anything that can put out high numbers of S8 > or AP1/2 shows will kill it dead.

If you charge a unit with a 350 point regular assault squad and that unit is a 400-500 point assault specialist why would you expect it to die? That makes no sense.

I play a DOA BA army... but there are plenty of options to beat the GK's. Mainly making sure you focus fire and use your mobility to pick your fights. WHEN you go into close combat make sure your rocking bodies and power weapons so that you can pick off the few remaining knights.

The Psychic power doesn't give out a 3+ invulnerable save. It gives out stealth. So the Grey Knights have to make use of cover... Which slows them down and gives you even more mobility advantage.

I wish people would stop whining about ultra cheese.... Beginning to piss me off.

Spartan said...

Thanks Hero for Game #1 report very interesting read.

VT2 said...

Why don't you say it like it was?
"The guy sucked, had a horrible foot red marine list, didn't know what he was doing, and he relied on bolters. It was easy to roll up and stomp him."

Then you tell him to dump the tacs, so he can start winning.

Wupin said...

I agree with Sea Dragon, this list has a major weakness against mass S8 AP1/2 shots, mostly from Eldar and Dark Eldar. In tournament, it will drop dead because you get melta fire from all over the place, and with such small units they give away kill point easily.

This report reminds me of how tough Paladins can be. At first I thought with the current meta game you see a lot of melta weapons, but then I just realize that is not always the case. I still prefer normal GKSS than Terminators because of more warm bodies but same shooting power, but I might try some Terminator in the future.

Anonymous said...

Interesting report but what is your opinion on your opponents list? I know you think it was balanced and personally I usually prefer balanced lists myself, but do you think it would be competitive in tournaments? I think, you said that your lists are geared for competition so I'm just curious if you're playing other lists geared for the same and just happen to find a match up in your favor, or if the list was merely for fun. While you don't control what list the other person brings to the table, perhaps you could add something in your analysis on whether the other player brought a typical tourney list, geared against GK list, balanced list, or unbalanced list description so that we could take that into account in our comments and views. I'm just starting to get back into 40k and the tourney scene so don't know what the typical tourney list looks like.

Even with that minor critique, it was a good report. I'm wondering how he would have fared even were he geared against your list though since it looked like you had pretty favorable deployment. I'm also not sure if plasma will be the answer to Paladins since it won't instant kill the model and you can play wound allocation games (I'm too lazy to do any mental math on it right now).

Gramps said...

Thanks for the write up.

The new GK codex just gives me more justification for using a Librarian in my Deathwing lists. Sure he's only leadership 9, but his hood has unlimited range.

Love the new codex and options it brings.

HERO said...

The way I see it, Paladin lists are not all that competitive. They're powerful and can exploit a opponent's weakness really well, but they die in the droves to S8 AP1-2 weaponry. God knows Eldar is full of it, IG demo packs, Vindicators/Demolishers and the like all give it trouble. On a bad day, a list with max Long Fangs shooting at one small squad at a time will force enough 1s to make me really sad.

As for my opponent's list, I would say it's a balanced list. Would I consider it competitive? Not entirely. I normally build mine with more vehicles and more Jumpers to maximize on mobility and Shield of Sanguinius. Besides the point, the idea of his list is: Shoot the opponent and force him to come to you. With FNP on his Tactical squads/Devs because of the babysitting dual ASM squads w/ Priests, his list is all about forcing reactions out of me.

If I took a different list with more PAGK and not Terminators, things would of looked a lot different. Like I said, I had field advantage and deployment. This battle report was just to show you guys how difficult it is to kill Paladins with a "normal" list when I'm taking advantage of cover and Shrouding.

If he took RB spam, I would of DS'd and Outflanked my entire army with the help of Servo-skulls. But then, that would of been a completely different game.

Anonymous said...

What are your thoughts on SR's? Are they even worth fielding and if they are, what load out and/or units would you shove in them? Take a dreadnought?

TheKing Elessar said...

Sea Dragon - Well said in response to the moans above. People like that ruin the Hobby for me, they can't just grow a pair and learn to play the game as a game.

Angelust said...

Larry - Seems like an interesting game. I agree that the BA player's list was kind of all over the place. 2 vehicles in 2k? Tac marines without rhinos? 2 Dev squads? It's not really a bloodhammer list, a DoA list, or a mech list. It almost looks like a counter-charge list from the end of 4th edition PDF blood angels.

I also had a game where I used 10 multi-kitted Paladins, though the match-up was a lot worse. I played Mechdar with lots of Fire Dragons and Fire Prisms and starcannon warwalkers...I didn't use a single FNP save throughout the entire game, but the Paladins did surprisingly well, killing a 2 wave serpents, a prism, and some dragons.

HERO said...

lol Mechdar. Yeah.. vs. Mechdar I would just DS close to them in cover and pray things go well. Can't wait to play against Tau and get shot to shit by suits all day long. Abaddon is going to single-handily shit on Paladins all day long.

Sea Dragon said...

"Abaddon is going to single-handily shit on Paladins all day long."

LMAO, haven't ever played against him actually... despite having played for 10 years :(. Is he that bad? Could Diago not stomp on his head?

After game 2 I am interested to see what you think of Paladin power levels? Your previous blogs had said that you didn't consider them the super powered unit everyone thinks they are. Is this still your consensus? Or have they preformed much better than you expected?

Anonymous said...

Just a quick note. In game 2 with your Grand Master you give out 2 Scouts and 1 reroll 1's.

The Grand Strategy rule says that all units must have the same strategy, so you can't do that sort of splitting.

WFI said...

heh yeah my Farsight Tau List rips pali lists new assholes thanks to ap1-2 everywhere trialed one similar to your first list and yeah I lost 3 suits due to charging for shits and giggles

Anonymous said...

Looks like this battle was much more competetive. Very well done. I am also curious to see how you feel the Paladin level is. They looked like they rocked in that game but I wonder how equal points used elsewhere may have been. Your thoughts?

HERO said...

Ah, cool, thanks for the slight correction on Grand Strategy. It didn't really make much of a difference as the Paladins were overkilling well over the needed amount. I'll answer about Paladin power levels in a little bit.

Zjoekov said...

Hard to judge without the pictures, but I can't imagine that it was a good idea to deepstrike the Palladins. You're playing without such a huge part of your army for some turns that any gain simply can't offset the loss. No wonder you got kinda raped in the first 2 turns...

The fact that you let him charge 2 of your squads seemed a bit lacking too... Coulnd't you block the Land Raider with your Rhino so your GK's could fire without danger of getting charged the next turn?

HERO said...

Yeah, the Paladins should/could of stayed on the field to offer more firepower earlier game. I misjudged range on one of my GKSS squads and the other one I should of packed up in my Rhino after taking a few losses. My other Rhino and units were out of range to block the LRC, and yes, pictures would help :)

As for the Paladins being overpowered, I think against certain unit matchups, they can be extremely deadly. Of course, the 2+ save can still be failed vs. mass S8+ shooting (like Long Fang spam), but outside of praying for instant death, once your low AP weapons have been dealt with, it's very hard to remove Paladins from the table. Half of the matter comes from the 2W and the other comes from differently configured models. This combined with their ability to utterly dominate entire units in combat (before they strike) means they're absolute monsters.

One of the reasons I chose to hold Paladins in reserve is because they attract so much fire and attention that losing some in early game would of made them weaker later game. They acted as my trump card and my gamble paid off because my opponent had absolutely no way to deal with them towards the end of the game.

That's where the true strength of Paladins come in I think. Once all counters have been neutralized, they give off a aura of dominance that's just demoralizing. Small arms fire does virtually no damage and praying on failed wounds from missiles isn't the best guarantee. In short, once enough counters have been taken care of, Paladins are pretty much invincible. My opponent knew that fighting them in combat is certain death and that I could just A-move them forward into his remaining Devs if he didn't do anything.

Now the question remains if there's ever enough counters to deal with them. Like I've mentioned before, Paladins are very expensive. My squad comining in at 560 points for 7 is testament to such things. A squad of 10x TH/SS Terminators with a Priest nearby is roughly the same amount and that would be pretty outrageous for me to kill. Aside from RB mech spam and shooting the living jesus out of them with Mech IG/Mechdar/Tau, I'm beginning to wonder if we're going to see big footslogging Terminator wars just to answer Paladins outside those aforementioned armies.

HERO said...

After the last 2 games, I will say that I'm confident that Paladins alone will change people's lists. Unless you're Deldar, Mech IG, Tau suits or RB spam, you need an immediate answer or die imo.

Anonymous said...

well I do have to say, I think BA will suffer more at the hands of the new GKs more than any other major dex. (I know little of Nids, and obviously Demons suffer.)

They just don't have a plan B like the SWs do. No long fang spam without taking away from the strengths, etc. At the end of the day, BA needs to fight, and rely on FC.

However, GK squads without halbreds will die to them and any other mild CC threat. So it makes me wonder what the value of GKSSs really is. The other options being Draigo Pals, plain TGKs, or Crowe purifiers. To me GKSSs are taking up space (lol without any playtesting)

It is cool to read about the Paladin destruction. GKs owning assault, it's about damn time.

Your friend either has giant churchbells, or was drunk to assault them.

– bonedale

RotatingPanda said...

*Sigh* Being that I dislike tervigons and there is a GK player in my local group, I assume I should just get used to losing, especially if he starts running Paladins?

August said...

The Grandmaster (and all HQs, right?) are just Characters, not ICs. How do you feel that affects how you play them?

HERO said...

Umm... they're definitely ICs. Look under their special rules mate.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the research. As a Chaos Marines player it looks like more of the boring stuff for me..Obliterators. A camping squad or two of FNP Plasma armed Plague Marines are a must as well.

Angelust said...

People saying that plasma is the way to go with Paladins are just wrong. S7 AP2 means you get 1 wound on one paladin, if they fail their 5++ or 4++ cover or 3++ cover with librarian. So great, you need to torrent an entire squad to be able to kill one model, which will definitely not be the psycannon-toting models. If your suits are in range to shoot fusion guns or plasma rifles, you're in range for 8-16 rending Psycannon shots.

I honestly don't think Paladins will be all that, but just saying "shoot plasma at it!" probably won't pan out to be that effective when turn 5 and 6 are rolling up, and the Paladins are still parked on a mid-field objective. (You can just tank shock them off, but that's another story)

Sea Dragon said...

Just a quick point, those of us saying the blood angels have no answer to Paladins without affecting lists are wrong.

First of all all Blood angels assault squads should be rocking with 2 melta guns. Coupled with their deep strike accuracy and superior movement they should be more than able to get the drop. At 220 odd points you can easily rock 2 full assault squads and a priest to cover them. 3+ and FNP along with lots of bodies will be more than enough protection against long range shooting. 4 Melta guns are going to hurt any paladin.

Honour gaurd can be given 4-5 melta guns. Characters can rock in with infernus pistols/combi-melta's to add to the ability to deal with them.

Finally if you are really having problems then given how cheap our lascannon devs are we should have no problem putting out 2 LC squads to ruin Paladin's days.

For RB BA spam then the replacement of an AC/LC side sponson pred with a Vindicator solves your problems.

So yeah, as hero has said, change of lists if your not mech dar, IG etc but so long as you look after your counters you will be okay.

THAT is the key, against GK if he holds his Paladins in reserve it may be worth holding your counter in reserve to keep it safe... Even if that drops you 300 points for 2 vindicators that's going to be less than his Paladin squad. If he deploys straight up... then hit em hard and hit em fast... With everything.

abortexfloortechs said...

Where is the turn 2 concede deepstriking mishap battle report?

HERO said...

I didn't write it yet.. and it was cool for my opponent to let me place my servo-skull instead of mishapping. It was on Turn 3 btw :>

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