Wednesday, November 24, 2010

Things I still need to try


First, I'd like to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving day in the US.  It's actually tomorrow but I'm not going to be here.  I'll be flying back to Jersey to celebrate with my family and friends so no more killing for a while (except for the Turkey).

So here's what I tried out in the codex so far:
  • Asdrubael Vect - Good if you can afford the points.  You're really paying for the 4+ to seize and the better Agonizer.  His blast weapon definitely rocks if you can hit a chunk of units with it.
  • Archon w/ the Huskblade, Soul Trap combo - Too many points to be worth it.
  • Archon w/ SF, Agonizer - Great use of points right here.
  • Succubus w/ Agonizer - Basically the same thing as the Archon, but cheaper points wise.  You basically take her if you can't afford the Archon listed above.
  • 10x Warriors w/ Blaster and Splinter Cannon - Great unit, a lot of anti-infantry shots and the Blaster shot from 18" makes it the DE's version of the Grey Hunter squad.
  • 10x Wyches w/ Agonizer and Blast Pistol - Great unit so far.  With the right combat drugs, you can tear a lot of things apart, even MEQ.  Vs. GEQ, you will tear them apart without an issue.
  • Wyches with Haywire Grenades - Not sure if they're worth the points yet because I plan on using Wyches for CC specialists and keeping things in combat.  Haywire Grenades is 20pts in the wrong direction but it does increase their versatility.
  • 4x Trueborn in a Raider - Great!  They're really useful because you can't ignore these guys if you're running mech.  I would definitely take them in a Venom if there's f'n models for these.
  • Ravagers - Absolutely worth it with Night Shields and Flicker Fields.  Adds a lot of firepower to your army and has the same slim profile as the Raider.  Great for working around LoS, gaining cover and opening optimal fire lanes.

Things I would like to try next:
  • The Duke - I gotta get this dude on the table with a big unit of Trueborn w/ Splinter weapons.  The only sad thing is that I've seen what a blown up Raider can do to my guys so I'm really worried about the unit getting blown up for it makes its points back.  For that reason alone, I might run him in a unit of Warriors to keep points down.. or better yet, baby sit some Trueborn in a Venom.  Yeah, I don't know, but he looks really fun and cost effective.
  • Voidraven Bombers - Looks great on paper.  I would probably always hold these guys in reserve unless I'm not dealing with any long range firepower.  I would also probably give them 2-4 Shatterfield Missiles so I can move 12" on the turn I come on and shoot missiles at whatever needs to die.  Great anti-horde army and pretty good anti-tank.  The only thing I'm worried about is the price.  I can fill in a Succubus w/ Agonizer and a Ravager for the points cost of one of these bad boys.
  • 20x Warriors w/ 2x Dark Lances in cover with FNP - In theory, this would be one of those units you want to hate but have to respect because no one takes dudes on foot anymore.  With cover and FNP, these guys can act as insanely good backfield objective holders.  The two Dark Lances gives me versatility to shoot at tanks and the intensity of rapid fire poisoned shots keeps troop units thinking twice before approaching.
  • Wracks, I'll just proxy my Wyches - My friend Nick has been finding MSU Wracks to be well worth it.  Since MSU Wracks work so well in Raiders, why not take full squads of 10?  This is something I have to try out unless I'm taking 5-dudes that score in a Venom that's playing keep away.
  • Haemonculi, proxying some WHFB models - With Wracks come Haemonculi.  The Liquidfier and the Shattershard is the only thing I find worth it on these models.  Oh yes, and the must-take Venom Blade imo.  Wounding anything on 2s is a great way to inflict some cheap wounds.
  • Venoms, I need my friend's Vypers for these - Hurry up and release models for these already.  Shit.

Strategies I'd like to try:
  • Using MSU units since my big squad of dudes get blown to shit if the Raider explodes

What you fellow Archons can do for me:
  • Try these out and share your strategies, battle reports and results so I have something to read at my parent's place.

Thanks!

21 comments:

Shin said...

I have a battle report I posted up on Fritz40k. For my first game with DE. I can tell you, Wracks are totally worth their points. Stick them with a Haemonculi in cover to hold objectives they are tough. I've had great success with the liquifier guns. I also proxy Necron Lords as Haemonculi, and flayed ones as Wracks. I also tested out a Trueborn Squad with 10 units and a Haemonculi in cover. It's pretty sick, and considering I loaded them with 2 Dark Lances and 4 Shredders they worked well for me. I can agree with the Haywire grenades to an extent. I played IG with them and decimated their vehicles, but when I played my friends space marines I was locked with a Dreadnaught the WHOLE game.

Minijunkie said...

That's just a shadow field and agonizer on the archon, right? Anything else? I was gonna give him phantasm grenades to put him in with incubi.

HERO said...

SF, Agonizer, Drugs, maybe a BP.
Sure PGL works if you're taking your Archon in your Incubi unit.

nickthewise said...

I have tried the 20 strong Warrior squad in cover with FNP, and were quite impressed with their performance. I gave them Splinter Cannons and sat them on an objective. Anything that got close was shot to heck and back, then intercepted by Wyches. Dark Lances are probably a better bet, but in any case it's going to take a lot to move them from an objective.

The Duke was good, and quite a force in combat (got re-roll to wound combat drug). The 3+/3+ for Trueborn with Splinter Cannons and Carbines is pretty deadly. But it was target #1 for my opponent, and their Raider was shot down before it got them somewhere useful.

I want to try some games without Haemonculi, but I'd be tempted to stick one in there to grant the Trueborn FNP.

Anonymous said...

Any thoughts on an Archon with a blaster, drugs, shadow field, and an agonizer? Or really, just adding a blaster period. You lose one close combat attack, and get an almost guaranteed hit.

Sean said...

I still think that st/hb is still a good combo, and well worth the points you put out for it. With the new faq and IC's being forced to fight each other in combat you will rack up the combo Real fast. Think about it, the popular WAAC lists run A Lot of ICs. SWs run a lot of psykers, sometimes Logan(granted he is immune to the ID portion of the blade but still)

BA's Sanguinary priests that they take out the ass are ICs.

You just have to pick and choose which unit he goes after, and remember, MCs also count for the soul trap.

Also, I want to point out that running the Agonizer archon is cheap, you negate the +1 str drug (which also means one IC makes you str 8)

Also, the duke is amazing! His pick the best out of 2 combat drugs is money. In the past 6 games of mine, I have gotten a 6 in my results causing my Archon(with huskblade and soul trap) to have furious charge as I put him with wyches.

HERO said...

The thing about the Huskblade combo is that your opponents see it coming and understand how it works. It needs time to set up and that's what taxes the item the most. I didn't know the new FAQ states that ICs have to fight eachother. That makes it better.

AbusePuppy said...

I think Shadowfield/Husk Blade/Soul Trap is a reasonable way to go. You're pretty much intending to hunt down a single IC (or MC) and get a wound onto him and at that point he's a monster. Investing in combat drugs can also work, although at that point you are looking at a very pricey dude.

The opponent can see it coming, sure, but you just don't give them a chance- you're faster than them and have the shooting to get them out of their box. The new FAQ doesn't actually force ICs to fight, but it does allow (force) them to push their way through normal scmucks to get into a fight, so it becomes impossible for a support Libby or Farseer to hide behind a wall of guys.

Fighters and bombers should be taken to fill holes in your list's anti-infantry; the Ravager is superior at killing tanks and cheaper to boot, so take them for those large blasts. (Monoscythe are a perfectly acceptable missile, don't feel bad about keeping them. I'm less sold on the bomber, but it seems like it could be useful.)

Haems are very good utility HQs- you can fill your FOC for only 50pts and still get something out of it, or upgrade them with Liquifiers, Portals, and other weird stuff. The anti-psyker and other things are potentially useful as well, so don't discount the ability to fill gaps in your army if you need it.

Haywire on Wyches are just a secondary way to handle a vehicle if you have to and defense against Dreadnoughts. Nothing sucks like losing a whole squad to countercharge. They're good, but not necessarily mandatory.

I love Wracks, but I think they're better in Raiders than Venoms- you want to give them a way to hurt tanks, which Venoms can't, since the Wracks themselves are decent against infantry. You also want enough bodies that they can;t just Bolter you off an objective.

Anonymous said...

hai lol happy thanksgiving how about teh arkon wit blaster is he any good lol

Anonymous said...

I was toying with a Blaster Archon build:
Blaster, Agoniser, Djinn Blade. You can put whatever else you want in there too.

I think it might be a loophole (or some rules lawyering, for which I'm truly sorry...)but the Djinn Blade being in the wargear selection (and a power weapon)for the Archon means that you can still have 2 CCWs if you take the Agoniser and Djinn Blade. Then you switch the pistol for the Blaster and you have yourself a kind of ultra-grit going.

Plus, here is the real rules lawyering, the Djinn Blade's entry states that it gives 2 bonus attacks per round of combat. It does not say that those attacks have to be power weapon attacks. You could then say that those 2 attacks are Agoniser attacks. Bringing you up to 7 attacks base: 4+1(2 CCWs)+2 (Djinn blade).

I will try this out at some point.

Krash said...

What about Hellions as troops? I have been playing around with this idea and so far I am not sure about it. I like the concept and I like the Baron too but it seems like wyches and a Raider are going to cost about the same but have a bit more flexibility with the Dark Lance.

I was working on an idea for a "flying circus" style army using the Baron, one or two squads of Hellions, Warriors, possibly Trueborn, Reavers and Razorwing Fighters. I like the Razorwing over the Void Raven mainly because of cost. The Razor comes with 4 missiles, 2 dark lances/disintegrators and twin linked splinter rifle (splinter cannon upgrade totally worth it) for one low price. These things are amazing Anti-Horde units since they can put out so much damage in a single turn.

Also, what do you think of Lady Malays? I have been trying her out just for kicks since she is dirt cheap and has better stats than Baron or the Duke. The ability to almost completely re-do your deployment before the start of the game is kinda fun!

HERO said...

Huskblade is pretty reasonable, but I guess that all depends on who you're used to fighting. It can be really good against Sanguinary Priests or Rune Priests because they're pretty screwed against it, but for those lists that don't, it'll definitely make your HQ choice a little weaker. It's still good, I mean I was able to get my Archon to S10 at the end of the game, but that took 4 turns to do with my opponent feeding me his MotF. I can still see this as a valid strategy though.

As for Lady Malys, I think she's a solid buy for 130 pts. 4++ invulnerable is pretty good (I would rather have 2++) and she's still combat effective as most Archons with a Djin Blade; just not as survivable. You buy her for her special abilities, just like the Duke and my earlier articles already discussed how I think they're great ICs.

So far, it looks like the big ICs in our book is: Vect, Duke, Malys and Baron. All of those choices are very cost effective and I think a lot of interesting builds will revolve around those hqs.

Happy Thanksgiving all!

Anonymous said...

Re: djinn blade's bonus attacks - that was my thought, and would be awesome if it worked, but I haven't looked into the specific rules yet. It would also be a BA model. How do you spell hardcore? Two swords and a blaster.

Even if it works right now, it will be errata'd.

Dom said...

(original Djinn Blade/Agoniser/Blaster commenter here)

Yeah, you know when you read a rule and you think: "That can't be what they mean, right?" But unless it's errata'd, I don't see a rules issue with the setup.

TBH, I already have a conversion in mind for the model =P

Anonymous said...

You're absolutely right...there's no need to even check the BRB, the djinn blade description is unambiguous. I'm not sure about cost effective - 20 points for 2 additional attacks which might attack you? That would be the epitome of suck - to lose your shadow field to your own sword. Those two additional attacks, with an agonizer, are going to inflict less than 1 wound.

What's your conversion idea? Mine was to have a plastic blaster and arms from the warrior kit, with an agonizer coiled at his waste - just some picture wire and a plastirod handle. It wouldn't be terribly difficult to throw a sword across his back or at his waste somewhere.

Dom said...

You're right, it's not like it's a broken combo or anything. For 20pts you get your second CCW and +2 attacks but the Djinn Blade does come with its drawbacks. Cost effective? Maybe not. Cool as hell? Yup!

I had two conversion ideas, both would be going to use the raider "hanger-ons" as base models:

1) One would be pointing with the Djinn blade while the left hand would use the warriors' agoniser (like it's trailing in the back). Then I would strap the blaster to his back.

2) The other would be shooting the blaster with the Blade diagonaly strapped to his back and the Agoniser probably green stuffed to his belt (Indiana Jones style).

I have no idea how these will turn out, but I will try to make the most dynamic looking models possible. =)

Anonymous said...

The second model is most likely what I would go for. I think picture wire is the right width for an agonizer, but it might be a little thick. A lot of copper wire from old phone cords is thin strands twisted together, thinner than picture wire. One of those two should work, and would save you some greenstuffing.

Dave said...

As the djinn blade is a power weapon (ie: special weapon) and the Agonizer is a special weapon as well, wouldn't that mean you wouldn't benefit from having 2 CCW's? Defeating the purpose of one of the extra attacks?

Anonymous said...

I'm trying a 10 man squad with blaster and DL in cover w FNP and giving the attached Haemonculus a hexrifle in my next game. Wracks have been awesome. I have my warriors sit on objectives close to my table edge, AS Long Fangs or vehicles with Ravagers and have Wracks and Wyches come from WWP to lay the smack down on any units contesting the middle. 10 wracks w 2 LG with Haemonculus attached is nasty. With Furious Charge the wracks re-roll to wound!

Dom said...

@Dave
I have re-read the BRB and I think you are right. They are both power weapons but the Agoniser has another "effect" added on. This would be the differentiating factor.

I still think I will model it =)

Anonymous said...

Way cooler way to implement Djinn blade:

Think of it as an upgrade for another CCW. So your Agonizer becomes a "Djinni Agonizer", Venom Blade becomes "Djinni Venom Blade".

And you don't have to think about your IC quickly sheathing one weapon, unstrapping another slashing twice then replacing it and unsheathing original all with one hand (rinse&repeat every few seconds).

p.s. Would be cooler still if Venom Blade stacked with another Special CCW. Which is what I initially thought their intent was (still might be, who knows its just general opinion that says not and GW is crazy). Power Weapon wounding on 2+ with +2 attacks for 25 pts isn't that OP, is it?

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