Monday, October 18, 2010

Need more pain please

Took a nap earlier in the day and now I can't sleep.  That's OK, I have some thought provoking questions on the Haemonculi option in the DE book.  Well, for one, they cost something like 50 points per pop with the Ancient costing 80 instead.  They can be fielded in a 1-3 slot choice similarly like the BA Sanguinary Priests and they come with Pain Tokens to add to your army.  They can also carry Arcane Items that boost their effectiveness.

The thing about these guys is that they can be spread out everywhere in your army and provide your units with FNP.  That means the second these units kill something, they'll end up receiving Furious Charge.  I guess if you want these two right off the top, you can take a unit of Wracks that start with a Pain Token and take a Haemonculus in the unit for a cheap FNP/FC unit.  Personally, I'm a big Kabal/Wych fan so I'll probably stick to those even though FNP/FC Wracks are pretty deadly with their WS4, I4, 2 attacks each with Poisoned attacks.

So the question I have is:  Are Haemonculi worth it?  They're fragile as all hell, have below average combat stats (WS/BS4 for the Haemonculi and 5 for the Ancient) and act as ICs.  Sure, they have 2W and 3W a piece, but they die really easy when swung at for an easy KP.  Don't get me wrong, the FNP is great to have in any army, but is having him in a squad of Warriors or Wyches or something else really that needed?  On the first kill, regardless of whether you shot something to death or ripped its head off in melee, you get a Pain Token.  Would it be worth it just to have a Haemonculi in a unit for that extra FNP bonus at the start of the game?  A Warrior squad with 9 dudes can't take a Splinter Cannon or Dark Lance.  The same applies to a unit of Wyches since they miss out on their second special weapon.  The only reasonable unit I can see them accompanying (outside of Wracks of course) is a 9x squad of Trueborn with Blasters.  Give the Haemonculi a Liquidfier and call it a day.  In fact, how would you equip yours?  Another weapon layout can be Venom Blade (2+ to wound) and Animae Vitro (or something?) that turns each unsaved wound into a Pain Token.

Someone on another forum brought up the fact that you can take some Haemonculi with Incubi, an Archon and a unit of Wracks and play token games.  I guess if you like deploying on foot and miss out on an entire turn's worth of movement, this is cool, but the gist of it is this:  The Archon is in a unit of Wracks at the start of the game that has a Pain Token already attached.  He leaves the unit, taking the Pain Token with him and then join a unit of Incubi or something.  Since the Incubi already have FNP because of the Haemonculus, the Archon joining will give them FC.  On your second turn, you can drop the Haemonculus from the Incubi's unit and they can go ride a Raider into victory.  Will this work wonders?  I doubt it.  I'd much rather take a Raider with Aethersails and get these Incubi into charge position for turn 2.  Killing is my method of getting Pain Tokens, no matter how attractive (or unattractive) Haemonculi can be.

What do you guys think?  Haemonculi or gtfo or what?


Ahrimaneus said...

I would say they are selectively useful. They obviously really shine when you are going for a Coven list, as giving wracks FNP and FC is pretty sweet indeed. I'd need to take a closer look at their wargear options in order to make a final ruling (which i'll be perusing later today), but among the nice options i've seen are the flesh gauntlet (auto-wound on a 3+ and cause instant death) and also the Cucible of Malediction (3d6" radius for psyker Ld test or remove from play). The DE biggest strengths are as elite unit (read Spaaz Mahreen) killers, and things like flesh gauntlets and other cool wargear are going to make any tyranid MC's that survive your blasters/DL/poison to think twice before assaulting. One unlucky dice roll on that flesh gauntlet and your 75 point haemonculus is now your MVP for insta-gibbing that big nasty. Not to mention they offer you the only possible anti-psyker wargear i'm aware of in the Crucible.

Just my 2 cents until later today

Anonymous said...

I think they are an excellent use of extra points. I don't plan to waste any turns running any token shenanigans, but if you have a few extra points burning a hole in your pocket and an open HQ, then why not?

I think it's a matter of durability rather than anything else. Taking 10 wyches with 2 special weapons will certainly be more killy than 9 with a haemonculus. Taking the haemonculus, though, gives you FNP from the start, and it gives you an extra wound counter. With the haemonculus and its extra wound, it will take (on average) 14 S4 WS4 attacks in CC before you remove a model, or 12 S4 BS4 shots at range. Without, they only need 5 in CC or 4 at range.

If I end up with a few extra points (but not enough for, say, an Archon) then I definitely plan to bring a haemo and downsize my wyches to 9. Killing maybe 1 less MEq per turn is very much worth it to triple my wych's durability, in my opinion.

-Zheilt (sorry, can't log in to blogger at work)

gundog8324 said...

how taking three dumping 2 into an Incubi Squad with Webway Portals and adding the third to a Harlie Squad? Use the Sail turn 1 get into position detach them drop the portals incubi are in the enemy turn 2 with FNP and FC and you have some webways deployed upclose for all sorts of goodness

Maybe the Sniper thing as a weapon for the haemies for turn 3 and on?

speedfreek said...

When you detatch one of your Haemonculi from the Incubi with 2 tokens in the above example, you split the tokens evenly between the units.

A better way of getting two tokens by turn one is to have a Haemonculi deployed with Incubi in Raider and an Archon with Wracks next to it.
The Haemonculi jump out, leaving the odd token with the Incubi, then the Archon jumps in and brings the token from the Wracks.
You can only move at cruising speed when picking up or detatching passengers and I don't know the wording on the sails, so don't know if you can use them.
The only way to move at cruisibg speed and have two counters is to deploy two Haemonculi and leave them with the unit.

Dantalion said...

Does anyone have any info on Rakarth? From the vague info I've gathered he supposedly distributes d3 pain tokens to grotesques/wracks, has toughness 5 making it hard to kill him since he gets feel no pain, regains 1 wound at start of each DE players turn, always wounds on 3+ and causes insta death. he could take the token with him and join a different unit after the distribution. To me he's always been a good option in 3rd and 4th ed, bringing lots of Wraithlords back to commoragh >:> I don't know his point cost though:/ But if it isn't too high I could easily use him in a incubi squad.

Anonymous said...

Urien is 190 pts

Anonymous said...

I agree with the killing for pain. But there is one reason that I will be taking the heamonculus. That is to get wracks as troop. Because they are really tough. Just plop the heamy in with wyches to make them survive the raider crash. I will also be taking the duke. I love that special character.

Anonymous said...

Venom Blade and Animus Vitae doesn't really work. Vitae is considered a special close combat weapon so it's used separately, not combined with poison.

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