Friday, July 9, 2010

What's wrong with this picture?

*Note that the Steam Tank only inflicts D3 Impact Hits rather
than D6 like other chariots (This will combine with the D3
Impact Hits per SP listed below).

The Steam Tank is armed with a main cannon in the hull and a
steam gun in the turret. The Engineer Commander is armed
with a repeater pistol (see page 47).

Special Rules
Impact Hits (D3 per SP), Large Target, Terror, Unbreakable,
Steam Points (see page 51)

Page 51 – Steam Tank, Movement phase
Change to “Each SP allows you to move the Steam Tank 3".
To charge with a Steam Tank, first declare the charge as
normal, and then specify how many SP you are using to charge
with. The charge range of the Steam Tank is equal to 3" per SP
that is spent. In addition, each SP spent on the charge adds D3
to the number of Impact Hits inflicted by the Steam Tank in
the Close Combat phase. Note that you do not add the roll of
2D6 to the charge range when a Steam Tank charges, and that
the target unit may make a charge reaction as normal.”

Page 51 – Steam Tank, Shooting phase
Change the last sentence of the third paragraph to “Models
covered by the template are hit automatically.”

Page 51 – Steam Tank, Shooting phase
Ignore the last sentence of the fourth paragraph.

Page 79 – Steam Tank, Special Rules
Change to “Impact Hits (D3 per SP), Large Target, Terror,
Unbreakable, Steam Points”

Page 80 – Summary, Steam Tank
Change special rules to “Impact Hits (D3 per SP), Large
Target, Terror, Unbreakable, Steam Points”

No, seriously.. what is wrong with this picture? I'll tell you what's wrong with it.. a T10, 10 wound Tank with a 1+ armor save that's invulnerable to spells without a strength value.

Other than Teclis casting IF Mindrazor on Spears and praying for 6s, I see no reliable answer to this thing. In fact, most armies don't have an answer.

Before you ask:

Q. Can the spell Pit of Shades from the Lore of Shadows affect the
Steam Tank? (p51)
A. No.


Anonymous said...

Funny thing is that some people does not allow special characters because "they are against the fluff" and "they are overpowered", exactly like happens with this "thing", only 12 exists in the whole empire.

The s10 bolt thrower spell from lore of beasts or teh pendulum from lore of shadows are the only way without cannons or rock throwers to kill that thing.

riggerz2003 said...

I really have to question how they Justify doing that, its not like it was that easy to get rid of before.

Anonymous said...

mindrazor, regiments of renown cannon, pendulum amber spear, savage beast on a hard hitting character, tank it with an unkillable character, tarpit it.

otherwise, wait for it to misfire/damage itself, at about 7 wounds left it's not going anywhere very fast, not enough steam points.

Anonymous said...

few other augment spells might do it, otherwise, transformation of kaddan

Anonymous said...

Tarpit it with a unit. Str 4 can still wound it on 6's with a -1 to its save (making it a 2+ I know)...

That's the desperate way...otherwise cannons, bolt throwers, spells, monsters, etc...

It ain't gonna be easy, that's for sure!

Anonymous said...

As if a bajillion handgunners and a handfull of artillery were not already tough to deal with in the new rules.

Anonymous said...

Wait, Aren't the special rules changed on page 50 from what ever they are to the new rules?

Would that then subject it to spells that do not have a strength value excluding the mentioned pit of shades?

Anonymous said...

Its funny the rulebook for the 8. Edition still say T 6 W 6

Ginge said...

Actually as an Empire player I'd say the steam tank has been made EASIER to kill in 8th ed.

Two things.

First, it is no longer immune to HEROIC killing blow. Meaning skulltaker, some brettonian knights, and some others I can't remember, can kill it with one hit. As in, killing blow, roll a 6 no armour save it aint got a ward save I don't care if you have 10 wounds you're dead! If you have one of these in your army one of two things will happen. You'll surprise your opponent and kill his steam tank. Or he knows about the character - and avoids them like the plague. Placing your character where you DON'T want the steam tank to be is very effective. In fact I often place a steam tank where I don't want the enemy to advance - it can be far better as a psych-weapon than anything else sometimes!

And second, for all those who are crying that they have no uber heroic killing blow characters, well send a bunch of swarms at it. Or goblins. Or newts. It doesn't matter how weak they are, as in 8th ed EVERYTHING can wound. Str 1 can wound T10 on a 6. You throw enough at it, you'll cause some wounds. Cause some wounds, and 1+ save or not, it will fail some armour saves. And as someone mentioned before, once you get it down to 7 wounds or less it's pretty ineffective, as the Empire player will be cautious about blowing up his own steam tank!

Hope this encourages you - in my experience with the tank it only works against players that are intimidated by it. The guys I know best know it, and while they're wary of it, they know how to deal with it.

Wulfy said...

That is EVIL!

My only ideas for my Skaven to deal with that would be:

- Felblade Warlord
- Poison Wind Globadiers
- Doomwheel

Luckily I have all of those in one list, but still!

Wulfy said...

Actually having said that, Crack's Call should work, no FAQ saying it can't!

*rubs evil ratpaws together*

Alex said...

It's harder for High Strength to wound the steam tank (like BTS) but 6s from everything, including STR 1 wound it. While that sounds easier, someone I know did some math on it and, on average, it would take 270 shots from handgunners, on average,(STR S4 armor pierecing) to wound it, so about the same from our repeater bolt throwers. However, to cripple a steam tank you really only need 2-3 wounds on it.

Ginge said...

@Wulfy - Cracks Call doesn't have a given str value does it? If not, it can't affect the tank.

As for wounding on 6s, the only benefit high str has over low str is you can modify the armour save (starts to make a difference from str5 up) but as you can generally get more of the lower str shots I find throwing everything at it till you've taken a few wounds off it will cripple it - you can then ignore it for the rest of the game.

Anonymous said...

I'm confused. Why doesn't lore of metal work on it?

HERO said...

Because the entire lore doesn't have a strength value.

Anonymous said...

Why can it only be hurt by things with strength value I mean.

HERO said...

Because it's part of its special rules that makes it that way. It's immune to spells unless the spell has a strength value; like a magic missile that does 2d6 S4 hits or something.

Ozymandias said...

Where is the rule saying that no S value spells can affect it?

As you've shown above change the "profile, equipment and Special Rules" to what they have in the errata.

It doesn't mention the spell immunity there...

HERO said...

Buy the army book then! The above is just the errata/FAQ.

Anonymous said...

After the first hype, I re-read the rules for Steam Tank in the Empire armybook.

It doesn't seem very scary, as the SP are created very few (Max 5) per turn and cannot be created in the opponent's turn. So, the first turn when the Tank charge, it will spend most SP on movement and very few left to use as impact hits. Our units get to stab it 2 turns with auto-hit and very few or no attack back from the Tank.

If it start losing wounds, good luck trying to roll D6 without going above its wounds.

So, it ain't THAT bad...

Ginge said...

No it wouldn't have many points left over... but it doesn't need them. If there's something in range, then you put all the dice into movement. In combat, you then get D3 impact hits PLUS 1D3 for every point you spent on movement. Hitting with 6D3 str 6 hits is gonna hurt, and if they do survive to hit you, they won't do much damage, you'll win the combat massivley, and if they hold their ground against you, so what?

A steam tank that gets the charge will almost certainly kill that unit. But once it's had a few wounds taken off, it becoems little more than an annoyance. Against a poor general I've also used this. He will waste all his firepower trying desperately to finish the tenacious little sod off, while I do nothing with it. The rest of my army escapes fire with every unit he shoots at the tank.

Anonymous said...

Lore of light comes in as a very useful option against Empire. The one spell you have that negates auto hits on a 4+ increases HE survivability. Oddly enough I noticed Teclis is the character most likely to wound the machine in close-combat with his sword. Ironic...

Kenneth said...

While I have my steam Tank its still doing about the same as it did in 7th Edition. Ram 1 unit; do impact hits then start taking damage. With step-up and only attacking every other combat phase its not that scary!

Also its max safe charge range is 12". A lot of infantry will be charging the same and charging it means a free round of attacks followed by less impact hits in his turn.

Even fighting Empire Spears (say standard 5x5) it rams them with 4SP (most that can be done safely) and kills ~9 guys. 11 return attacks net 0 wounds. Spears hold on steadfast. Next round they attack; and should score 1 wound with total of ~27 attacks (over the 2 rounds). Can generate as many points now... kills 5; Spears still have ~11 attacks for 2 more rounds. Maybe get another wound.... Held up and possibly crippled by a crap 145 point unit.

Anonymous said...

Any noble w/GW and potion of strength can charge it with 3 Str9 hits virtually guaranteeing 1 wound.

White lions (a probable target for it!) with Beast spell 1 (+1 S/T) will be dishing out Str7 hits so with 2 ranks doing ~2 wounds/turn.

Phoenix Guard block (5x4) even if charged at full power (so 4SP) only lose ~5 guys (and then 2/3 subsequent rounds) and put 1 wound/2 rounds back on the tank. After ~2 wounds it buggered

Cuagau said...

Blade of Sea Gold, ignoring the 1+ save, on a Prince with Mindrazor on. 4 S10 attacks. Something that increases attacks also useful, if such a thing is easy to obtain.
The plus side to this is the prince is still pretty tough, so it's not solely dedicated to the tank.

Newb Angel said...

Does it get a thunder stomp?

Cuagau said...

No. It isn't a monster, it's a chariot. Say's so right in the box.

Ginge said...

Oh you guys are gonna like this... there's been a FAQ update. The paragraph which says steam tanks ignore spells with no given str value has been removed. Cast away boys. Whilst theres still a question later on saying Pit of Shades doesn't effect it (I think this is something they've forgotten to remove and it'll soon be gone too) there are still plenty of instant kill spells you can hit it with. Purple sun anyone? :o(

Anonymous said...

karl franz...4 auto hits=4D3 wounds lol

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