Honestly, now that I've seen the Tyranid codex in all its "glory", I think it's time for me to say it:
I think Games Workshop needs to hire a community manager and or balance designer immediately.
I just can't see how this book turned out the way it did if GW paid any attention to its fanbase. I know a lot of people are in the camp that GW are a miniatures company and their job is to sell minis first, but that's horseshit. The second they decided to start writing rules to go with the models they create, they became a game company. They put out physical product that have rules attached and thus, they need to honor the gamer as well as the hobbiest.
Having combed through the book, I don't think they have a community manager at all. If you had someone who monitors the forums, read fan blogs and filters through the Internet, GW would know this codex is not what players wanted. The truth is that while some people will be happy, the majority of them will be highly disappointed. This includes myself as I think the new book is hastily put together, poorly executed and lacks all forms of character. It's uninspired, unoriginal and it's more of a WD update to streamline the old book for 6th ed. more than an actual codex. In fact, to call it an update would be to give it credit. The book makes tons of meaningless changes that doesn't improve the quality of the army but detracts from its original 3rd edition design even further. In terms of design, this book was a disaster. Not in the sense that the internal balance is poor, or because the power level is completely underwhelming, but it's simply not what players wanted. This seems to be an ongoing tread as of late and I'm not sure what the issue is.
Whenever I do game balance for any of the game systems I'm responsible for, I pay very close attention to the community. I am always heavily involved with the competitive players and the min-maxers without losing focus of the original design content. You also have stats of model sales, which common threads pop up, and which units are commonly taken to tournaments. There's just no excuse when you can pull hard data as well as gather feedback from trusred sourcces. You see, many people think in order for a game to be successful you need to appeal to the casual. This is false. If your background, your universe and the fantasy you provided for your players is good enough, the casual players will come and buy your models. They might enjoy the look, the art or the modeling potential. For them, this is enough since they casually play the game as a secondary hobby element. If you design the game to be balanced, only the competitive players will notice. The casual players are not into the hobby for the gaming element so what do they care about the state of the game. I think this is where GW has its disconnect. Because their targert is the younger, casual player who has disposable income, they think it doesn't matter if the game is poorly balanced. In truth, a properly balanced game does not hurt you in anyway, it only helps you. The reason why is because competitive gamers are usually the most vocal: they blog, they register on forums, and they're the ones who kick and scream when they get handed imbalance. This is negative publicity for your game instead of free, positive marketing. Imagine a world where GW gamers from all over the net praise each books release, or avidly promote their game at every convention. This type of free marketing cannot be bought, and it's one of the key driving forces for building a unified, successful gaming community. Currently, this is not the case.
Balance design is something of a niche field. It's essentially taking the idea of something and making sure it works with everything else. I'm pretty sure that the design department over at GW has no such field or anyone who specializes in the balance of army books. By now, I'm not even sure if they really have play testers or if they're making that stuff up. Or they have play testers, but their focus is purely to see if the models don't break when you handle them and if everything looks visually impressive when you put them on a mock battlefield. The reason I'm being this harsh is because there's no way a design studio can put out the Skullcannon, Heldrake, Wave Serpent, and the Tau codex with educated and experienced play testers providing you feedback. It's just not possible in the gaming industry, and this is coming from someone who started his professional career at 16. The only way this is possible is if GW deliberately doesn't care about game balance even when they know balance issues exist. This hurts me beyond measure because I know how successful they can be with one. Their games would be more fun for the ones who play it, for both casual and competitive players. In turn, this will lead to a more positive community, a more unified community with more tournaments, who would have no problem providing free marketing and publicity for your game system. This ultimately results in higher revenue and sales.
I wrote all this from my phone. Please don't kill.
38 comments:
I believe they are pushing towards a children's game, where a baneblade and a carnifex can fight each other on the table and that would be the extent of the game.
But I'm not at all sympathetic towards the tournament scene - they have done much more harm to 40k than help, in my opinion, by taking the game completely out of its fluff setting and math-rigging it.
I agree with you that tournaments have done alot of harm to 40k but alot of what GW is pushing is just getting ridiculous.
Have you seen the stronghold assault and escalation books? Its like GW have produced these new models, not alot of people are buying them and so they then bring out these rediculious rules and say you can use them in normal games. I am sorry but in what world is it fun to play a 1500 point game and watch you 10 man deathwing squad get D-weaponed off the table?
In the same respect, in what was is it fun to watch you tyranid warriors get insatant deathed by cover ignoreing long fang missiles, or S8 AP2 cover ignoring blase from Tau.
I agree with Hero that the play testing is non existant and so is listing to the community.
Look at the dark elf release. WTF was that fleet master pirate guy? Why cant you give it good rules? Would it be considered broken to give a unit a cool model & GOOD RULES?
The thing is, is GW cant get the balance right between over powered and under powered. Before the new codex always seemed to be the most broken thing to come out... space wolves, blood angles, grey knights, necrons. And now they are going the complete opposite way of by under powering the book and making it boring to play.
Sorry GW but I was going to start a Nid army when i 1st saw the rumours as it looked like such a fun, balaced book to play. However after reading the book..pff i have got better things to spend £500 on than an army which will spend most of its life on the shelf for 5 years until the new nid comes out.
I think you're confusing bad design with game balance. You can still have a perfectly fluffy game with good game balance. StarCraft is living proof that such a game exists.
Cool, i'm glad you have had chance to get in a lot of games with the new codex and have worked out all the relevant synergies between the units. How did you find the Crone and Exocrine when you used them or fought against them? Were there alot more gaunts on the table or did you go nidzilla style?
I have seen neither Escalation nor Stronghold. assault, both of which should have been complimentary White Dwarf inserts, not $30-$50 supplements. Just as the Inquisition codex could have been a WD article. A little money grubbing is expected, but so much at once is not becoming.
Well if we can ever get Andy Chambers back to GW maybe we can recover some of that Starcraft sensibility.
Personally I am just at the state of mind where I am a collector that have a chance to use his miniatures in a game rather than a gamer who collects miniatures. Around the time where the Grey Knight codex came out, I essentially just say to myself 'I seriously can't take this game seriously less I suffer a stupid meltdown for a hobby'. The fluff is ever changing, the rules are the same, and the players are also as fickle.
The main constant is that I like the models and that is a good enough reason for me. Even with the rise of inflation and the likes, the fact still remains that spending a few bucks for a miniature once in a while is still alright, especially when one becomes a collector as you tend to hoard a hella lot of money when you are not spending it on little plastic men. Currently I have more money than before, but I am spending less on my little plastic men and saving a whole lot more. When the mood comes for me to buy, I buy in droves and/or playsets.
I will admit that as a game, GW has a lot of work to do when it comes to balances. However when the main reason why I play this game is for the chance to socialize with other enthusiasts, the rules melts away. Also sooner or later, the lame builds or unbought models tend to become all-stars just because of a rules change. Better to be a collector than a gamer in most hobbies.
So when GW announced that escalation and stronghold assault are part of normal 40k you disagree...
Did you also complain when GW decided to put deathwatch squads from a "your opponent has to agree"-fluff unit into a fixed and of course always available codex unit in form of the sternguard?
People prefer to complain instead of thinking how to combine or use new stuff. Yeah, it's far easier to not adapt something new. No change no worries xD.
How is GW supposed to listen to a community that constantly calls foul for any perceived slight? I could understand if there was some sort of organized discussion somewhere about what can be done to improve the game, but a majority of comments are either about how everything is a cash grab, how the newest models are the worst models ever created, how every other new rule is actively breaking the game, or how whatever newest change GW is making is a slap to the face of anyone who's the game for longer than 20 minutes.
If you truly opened up a forum about how GW can improve itself there would be some constructive comments, but most would be pie-in-the-sky make my favorite model the best in the game requests, lower your prices to the point where you don't make any money suggestions, or just unbridled rage over every decision GW has made since 3.5 came out.
The reason why GW doesn't have a 'community manager' (whatever the hell one of those is)? Because their business plan is telling them they are making sufficient profits of a luxury product in an economic downturn, without doing all this 'engaging' with gamers. When it becomes not just cost effective but cost essential for them to do so, they will do so. Until then, you may say you don't think they are succeeding by one metric - but it clearly ain't the one they are using as a measure of success.
Like the models, like the game and just have fun. Plain and simple.
+1 GW used to have a forum on its website a loooong time ago but that got shut down due to the amount of hate and rubbish that used to be put on there
I disagree with only one line: "Because their target is the younger, casual player who has disposable
income, they think it doesn't matter if the game is poorly balanced"
Even (perhaps especially) younger players contain competitive souls who want to play a fair game, where their cool models behave on the battlefield as they expect from the fluff. The models, imagery and background draw people in, but the fact that lots of youngsters play with proxies and grey plastic shows that they are just as interested in the game (and issues such as balance) as anyone else.
I just cannot understand why GW don't appear to make any effort to fix these problems. It's a gigantic PR disaster, and can only have a negative impact on sales. The point isn't whether or not GW is profitable. It's whether they could be more profitable by making what should be some simple changes to their business model and please a whole lot of people at the same time. And I say this as someone who's far from a hardcore tournament player.
The day of the Nyd tidal wave may be back, big bugs to the back off the bus and use VT’s and little bastards to provide condescending saves as the days of yore.
Exocrene is another fun looking monster, it’s an organic Vindicator, so probably works best in two’s… But the option to just pound away with Assault 6 Ap 2 S6 guns is always nice.
I don’t know if Mawlocks and Trygons will be all the hotness…
Regen seems a tad over priced but I don’t think over the top upgrades is this Dex’s niche, bare bones and brutal!
There’s a lot of internal balance to this book. I know the external may have a problem or two when compared to Taudar, but honestly when compared to any of the other books it’ll stand up just fine.
Did you consider Daemons of 7th to be the book to which all armies should have been brought to?
Collections will most certainly be growing that’s for sure, I don't think it's going to be some insurmountable mountain to make these bastards work, it looks good to this ugly ol'bastard.
oh boo hoo hoo another thread where if the tournament player is dissapointed then we need to fix their issues above everyone elses... I'm sorry but get over it. your not the majority your the albiet vocal minority. most players play for fun they play with their buddies and they play.
SO GET OVER IT YOUR NOT THE MAJORITY not sure how else i can say that. you complain the loudest and because you have a blog their suposed to listen to what you have to say? any idiot can have a blog welcome to the modern era... seriously just because you have a voice doesn't mean anyone has to listen to your voice let alone take your opinions into account when designing a game. this is where the internet is total crap. jsut because you have a blog doesn't mean that anyone need to or should honestly give a crap what you think or have to say. so get over it.
I don't know what you're rage posting about, but that's not the point of this article. I'm saying that good game balance improves the state of the game because only the competitive players notice and it doesn't affect the casual player in any way. What downside is there for good game balance? Absolutely none. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose.
How about you learn how to read before you randomly start ranting. Come back with a coherent thought or don't bother coming back at all.
But what do they have to lose with proper game balance? They can turn greater profits and revenue generated by free marketing and events.
Come back in a few weeks, that should be enough time for most people to figure it out. I doubt it will change anything.
But the point is that you and half the GW community are speculating and bemoaning the death of Tyranids and a lack of GW listening to the community when there's been almost no actual games played to see how the codex really works. I've yet to see a list or any battle reports, only a bunch of internet rage.
And it's not like this is the first time that this has happened: White Scars were supposed to be the new top tier army when they came out, Tau were suddenly going to be taking five riptides when the farsight enclaves book hit, Daemons were going to turn a normal game into a seven hour affair with all the rolling they were going to be doing, You were going to see four Heldrakes on every Chaos player's table when Black Legion came out, etc. etc. Every time there's a new codex or updated rules people freak out and post these sort of death knell /. sky is falling articles.
But guess what happens: The community absorbs and adjusts and goes on and after two weeks everything returns to normal and is forgotten. So you'll have to forgive people who aren't yet convinced that Tyranids are dead and buried before the codex even comes out.
I get what you're saying, and knee-jerk reactions are so rarely a good thing, but at the same time I think it's miportant to accept that when people who focus so much of their time and thought on the game we all love decry something so quickly and universally as the Nid dex something may be wrong. Guys like Hero tend to have a far better insight into these things than the casual gamer(me), and when they can point out, at a glance, so many basic things that have gone wrong simply be comparing new to old, the writing may be on the wall. I think GW's recent admitions of lack of playtesting, blatant focus on product pushing over any semblence of game balance and overall shift from Wargames company to Miniatures company (despite any protestations that this has always been the case and the whole of the truth), can only bode badly for the GAME we play, even if there has never been a better time to be a modeller/painter/collecter first and foremost.
They are a British Limited Company running by the requisite governance required of such a company. They have a business plan, it is a success story - as I already said above, they will view (quite rightly) their profits in a financial downturn as a success. There then is an element of - if it ain't broke don't fix it. Our buying patterns are not telling them anything is wrong. If they did a snapshot of market research now, they would probably conclude one of 2 things - they are hated, but making money - so lets carry on regardless. Or 2 - there is a vocal minority claiming they should make change, but it is only a minority - the faceless voiceless thousands are spending money so carry on. If it ain't broke, why fix it. I genuinely believe this represents the difference between the American approach to customer service (tertiary industry masters, customer leaning, 'have a nice day') and the British. Americans are used to companies bending backwards for them, Brits aren't. So whilst Americans find it quite surprising, the Brits doing the business plan draw the conclusion that the profits are sufficient so no change is necessary.
Yes, I agree that the majority of the internet is filled with idiots who just talk shit, troll or don't understand what they're talking. I hope you can see that I am not one of them, I'm a veteran GW gamer with an established history of accurate reviews based on game design experience. This gives me a greater capacity to make first impression
I get you man, and I personally enjoy reading your blog, especially the grey knight articles you've done. You just have to understand that with so much noise on this subject out there right now it's hard to take articles like this without a grain of salt until more time has passed to see what the effect of the meta will be.
It's cool, no hard feelings. Just wait and see!
I think at some point you need to ask yourself a certain number of questions. I think we can all agree that posts and comments like this come out for this game and have for nearly two decades. There is nothing new about it.
Why do you continue to play a game that you are so unhappy with and view as unbalanced. If you take some of the more competitive and far more fun games out there you will realize they do not suffer they same problems GW and 40K in particular do.
Hell privateer press makes a super popular game build around min maxing and power gaming but is actually balanced and is not only hugely competitive but geared around tournaments. Thats just to name one. Do not get me started on how amazing Infinity is.
I think it is more helpful to realize and accept 40k/fantasy is not meant for that, its not meant to be balanced, nor is it designed to be played in tournaments. GW actions have clearly indicated they are not interested in game balance and sensible design. Its a beer and pretzel game with pretty figs. If your into a tournament game it helps to look else where. Many GW players who whine and cry after every release and stuck in a denial time loop.
really?
I am sorry but I have lived in 3 different cities in 3 different countries and in each of the local game store the majority if not all the people played atleast semi-comp. This new Nid codex can not even compete with the rest.
Sure if you want nice models and just want to play with what every you have got and dont really care about winning as you only play once a blue moon then yea you wont care how bad the rules are. However for the rest of us (which i would say is easy the majority) of people that actually want to give the opponent a fun challenging game then we want a good codex.
The thing is, it's no harder to write good rules than it is to write bad ones.
So if you dont care about the rules and just want to play with nice models every once in a blue moon then stop your whining about people complaing to GW about how bad and lazy they are getting at the rules. You may not care about them but the rest of us do. If we are going to spend our money on their products then we would also like them to listen to us their customer in both model quality and game design.
"Its a beer and pretzel game with pretty figs. If your into a tournament game it helps to look else where. Many GW players who whine and cry after every release and stuck in a denial time loop."
But thats the thing, we all want a beer and pretzel game. One where we can just relax and have fun while playing a cool game with cool mini's. However 40k is not becoming fun anymore. Its now becoming a castle up behind your ageis defence line and dont move but just shoot the enemy.
And its also not fun to just get absolutely crushed every game buy your opponent because of very sub par rules
GW is not interested in tournament play. they have stated this several times. As far as they are concerned it would be best if people meet to play a friendly game, not caring about balance or points. Of they must use GW miniatures.
Considering the glaring questions a simple readthrough by an average player reveals, it does not shine a good light on their "playtesters" either.
The fact that they allowed Cruddace to write this codex again, is such a slap in the face of the Tyranid players that he had to hide behide a Design Group.
Well his opinion is more important that the rude BS you are sprouting DA.
I agree with pretty much the whole article aside from one point that perplexes me. Why do you put the Skullcannon on the same level as some really OP units like Heldrakes and Wave Serpents. I've never seen them do anything to crazy so I was wondering where you are coming from.
Hell cannon in fantasy is absolutely out of hand.
I was talking about the Skull Cannon in WHFB. That thing is ridiculous.
I think the new Tyranids codex is well balanced...
Only with Chaos Space Marines and Dark Angels...
After Tau, Eldar and Space Marines came out... not so much...
Here Here! We can all understand and swallow (although just barely sometimes) an 'over the top' codex that is pushing some new unit(s) for the all mighty $. We accept those codex's all the better, because the "new shiny" (as pricey as it may be) provides for some real inspiration for new and old gamer alike for better or worse. At least its something to add a direction for the book. However when you put a book like this, without any real inspiration or any real sense of direction (good or bad), it's a recipe for "fail". because at the end of the day its nothing to get wheels turning. It' is what it is. One can hope this not continued course of 40k.... (may it rest in peace.)
Yep, that business plan of theirs seems to be working great. That stock is looking faaaaantastic right now.
The same way that Blizzard, Riot, heck, even Privateer Press operate a forum: you hire a community manager to help filter the signal from the noise (in terms of reporting issues back up the ladder).
GW's tact of saying "Well, people are saying mean things about us on the internet, so let's pretend that doesn't exist" doesn't seem to be working: WFB is all-but dead and GW as a whole just took a pounding in the markets.
The boys at GW Digital get it: they're engaged with their customers, answer rules question, etc. How much is that costing GW? How much good will is that buying back for them?
Hm. Good use of sarcasm there. They are still in profit. Do you remember when they posted a profit warning 2-3 years ago and all the idiots called for a boycott because they were vulnerable and would have to listen? Company is in profit, I predict it will continue to do so and the stock will go back up.
When you're a mature industry and your profits drop in the double-digits with no explanation, that's not a good sign. I'm sure they'll stay profitable for the next 2-3 years, but they're losing market share and fast. Bar a change in course, I don't see how staying the course is going to help them out.
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