Friday, June 25, 2010

High Elves in 8th - Making a list

With 8th Ed. on our doorstep, we must prepare ourselves for the trials of fire ahead.  The absolute worst thing you can do when going into a new edition is to march forward blindly and seeing where fate takes you.  I don't know about you guys, but I don't like it when my Elves die.  In fact, it offends me because it's my fault they're dying.  The entire point of spending ridiculous amounts of time taking them out of their cases and putting them on the table is to kill some face, and I intend on doing that to the fullest.

Now, I already listed the units that I think will be superior in 8th Ed in my previous articles.  I don't want to go over and explain everything all over again, but I will for the sake of time (and memory) write them all down here.  Just like my competitive Blood Angels unit bucket, I also have a competitive HE bucket.  It looks something like this:

Archmage, Book of Ashur [or Hoeth, depending on lore]
BSB, either on foot or mounted, with a good amount of protection
Prince, Star Dragon, Great Weapon, AoC, Vambraces, in larger games
Lv.1 Mage with Annulian Crystal
Lv.2 Mage with Seerstaff of Saphery
30x Spears in FC
30x LSG in FC
24x Phoenix Guard in 6x4 in FC
24x White Lions in 6x4 in FC
11-12x Dragon Princes in 6x2 in FC (varied size depends on BSB)
Lion Chariots
Great Eagles

Here are some of the units I want some solid playtesting with:

Ellyrion Reavers - Vanguard and harassment sounds tempting.
Sword Masters - T3 5+ saves with the enemy stepping up and I'm not Stubborn is bad news.
Repeater Bolt Throwers - 2W, no randomization and wounding on 6s worries me.

And here are the units that are so terrible I erased them from my head:

Silver Helms - Dragon Princes are better in every, single, possible, way for the price.
Shadow Warriors - With the new Skirmish rules in effect, even less reason to take them.

Alright, now that I my bucket, let's build some lists for the hell of it.  For now, I'll build 2 lists; one at 2000 points and one at 2500.  I heard from reliable sources that the games will be 2500 for Throne of Skulls, but 2k just seems like a much easier number to work with.  Regardless, it doesn't really matter.  Since High Elves have to invest in 500/625 points of core, they are no longer the "elite" army that they were in last edition.  Keep in mind that I'm going to use the standard army construction limits until the FAQ says otherwise.

Now let's take a look at my first list!

Lv.4 Archmage (Book of Ashur) = 330
Noble (BSB, GW, Armor of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix) = 168
Caradryan = 175
22x LSG (FC, Banner of Eternal Flame) = 321
20x Spears (FC) = 205
20x Phoenix Guard (FC, Standard of Blades) = 375
23x White Lions (FC) = 375
Great Eagle = 50

The BSB is pretty much mandatory now in all army lists now.  The option to re-roll all leadership checks is absolutely vital when taking any test.  I gave mine the best possible armor saves while being on foot: 2+/5++ with a Great Weapon is as good as you're gong to get.  My 526 points of Core takes me into the 25% zone and provides me with mixed shooting and Spears.  My two big special units consists of Phoenix Guard and White Lions.  Caradryan will sit comfortably in the White Lion squad for that wonderful 4+ ward vs magic and provide them with a little bit of fear.  The BSB will sit inside the Phoenix Guard with my Archmage and they'll be the center of my army.  Standard of Blades on the Phoenix Guard gives them Armor Piercing (might take a Banner of Sorcery, needs testing) attacks and Banner of Eternal Flames makes all my LSG's attacks count as flaming.  Even though I'm still undecided to what magic lore I'm going to take with my Archmage, I'm mostly leaning towards Lore of Metal and Shadow.  My metagame around here is fairly mixed but two armies standout like a sore thumb:  Skaven and Warriors of Chaos.  While the Lore of Metal is great for WoC, Skaven, not so much.  I would much rather take another lore vs. them.  I guess if anyone's going to shoot me, I can just Glimmering Robes all my White Lions and give them a ridiculous 1+ save vs. shooting.  Seeing 4 fat blocks of Elven infantry on the field would make anyone proud.. although I'm not really digging the lack of Dragon Princes or fast attack.

Teclis = 475
Noble (BSB, GW, Armor of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix) = 168
Caradryan = 175
30x LSG (FC, Banner of Eternal Flame) = 425
20x Spearmen (FC) = 205
20x Phoenix Guard (FC, Banner of Sorcery) = 380
24x White Lions (FC) = 390
2x Lion Chariots = 280

At 2500 points, I upgraded my Lv.4 to High Loremaster Teclis and increased the number of units by just a tad.  The 625 point lock on my core is really killing the way I played the game last edition (min core, max specials), but I think this change was for the better.  30x LSG in a 5x6 formation with Banner of Eternal Flame, support Spears and 2x Lion Chariots for some good ol' face-eating, counter-charging action.  The S6 on the White Lions even when they're mounted really kicks some ass.  20x Phoenix Guard like before, but I decided to go with Banner of Sorcery just for Teclis because it should give him at least an average of 11 PD to unleash every turn.  The White Lions are always amazing in their 6x4 formation and Caradryan will make sure the unit is well protected.

The biggest things to note here is the lack of serious shooting on my part.  I'm not entirely sure how it'll work out for me because I enjoy having a few Eagles and RBTs in my army.  It just feels a lot safer with them around.  Too bad the 625 points in core chokes my former "elite" army to death in terms of points spent.  I wonder if the errata will lift some of these restrictions for us?  Our entire army book in 7th was designed around the fact we had 1 less min core than everyone else so we can max out on specials and rares.  I mean that's why the book was 0-2 core, 0-6 specials and 0-4 rares right?  I'm dying to see that damn FAQ.  If I get too pissed off, I'm just going to Purple Sun people in the face with Teclis repeatedly.

Comments, questions, concerns, your-list-sucks, or post your own lists, it doesn't matter.  Let me know what you plan on doing with your army in 8th.


th0r said...

I'm interested in why you are running such a big block of white lions. While it's nice to be able to soak up wounds and remain combat effective.. damn that's a lot of points. I run a themed white lion list, so I always include my lions for better or for worse, although I am undecided as to the amount and how wide. I think 5 wide would be best, as it is ideal for hunting monsters and cavalry. While a wider rank could be used for combating infantry (7 wide in that case) I just feel that swordmasters are the better choice (now if they make it to combat that's another thing).

The new rules for RBT definitely sucks, but I think there still needed to clear out flankers (fast cavalry and the like).

I don't run any special characters (most in my area don't) but this is my 2250 list I've written after play testing three 8th edition games.

Arch Mage 355pts
-Lvl 4, Book of Ashur, Guardian Pheonix

Noble 143pts
-Armour of Caledor, Great Weapon, Battle Standard Bearer

25x Lothern Sea Guard 360pts
-FC, Shields, Banner of Eternal Flame

20x Spearmen 205pts
- FC

20x Spearmen 205pts

15x White Lions 237pts

Lion Chariot of Chrace 140pts

Lion Chariot of Chrace 140pts

5x Dragon Princes 215pts
-FC, Banner of Ellyrion

Bolt Thrower 100pts

Bolt Thrower 100pts

Great Eagle 50pts

Total: 2250pts

Brikhause said...

How do you get the points for Teclis, an Archmage, and a prince on Star Dragon? Even at 3000 pts you cannot go more than 750 lord choices.

HERO said...

@th0r - That looks like a very solid list to start playing at. A lot of Elf bodies in there and you get to fit in those 2x RBTs and the Eagle. You have a lot more speed too, which is great. I'll probably looking into fitting a big unit of Dragon Princes in there to experiment.

@Brikhause - Wow.

Brikhause said...

I am talking about your first list at the top, or was that just a list of units you would play with?

HERO said...

Read and find out.

LA said...

Hero I doubt that MR of a character extends to the whole unit. Isnt it just a special ward save now.

HERO said...

Sorry for getting back to you so late LA, but the Character's MR does indeed confer to the entire unit :)

Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

hey its bloody nunchucks from ulthuan and the pp forums. i just wanted to say that iv started running a large unit of 40 to 45 spears in my larger game (2.5K+) and it runs well. they can tie up an elite unit for a few turns because even if they lose theyll be steadfast and against hordes of shit stuff like goblins they should win.

i also personally like large units of SM's. around 21 or 28....7 wide and 3 or 4 deep. unless your opponent has mass shooting this unit can win games by itself with some magical backup. not much in the game can stand up to the unit, especially if it has the standard of balance or razor standard.

i agree that shadow warriors suck. as do the reavers in my experience. bolt throwers are nice but a 100 point unit of bowman can kill them now in two turns of shooting so........ huge liability.

i like PG as a anvil unit, 5 wide and 6 deep. that unit will be on the table the whole game unless they run into some graveguard or chosen.

anyway, iv read most of your HE stuff in the last couple weeks as i just found this blog..and gotta say, nice stuff. we seem to think alike. and im happy someone finally wrote the tactica for, thanks.

Anonymous said...

Would apprehiate some advice on a solid 2000 point list. I have a number of units available to me but there are some I have none of, so working around not having those units what would be a fairly strong 2k list

I have all of the core units roughly the following

10 Spearmen(Full Command)
10 Seaguard(Full Command)
20 Archers (Full Command)

For special Units I have

10 White Lions (Full Command+Hero)
20 Ellyrian Reavers (Full Command)
27 Sword Masters (Full Command)
2 Lion Chariots

Lords and Heros Eltharion on Stormwing, Teclis, Caradryan, 3 mounted mages, 4-5 mages on foot

Anyways thats roughly what I have, apprehiate input. I know I'm lacking certain units which is handicap just looking for decent list with what I have.

Kragg said...

Hi Hero, I'll post the lists i'm testing in these months.

Council of the light (2500 no limits no teclis/kairos/thorek,a ridicolous format being pretty much played in italy)

archmage hoeth lvl 4 (light)
mage anulian lvl 1(light)
mage  sigil     lvl 1 (light)
bsb with GW and banner dragon of the world
20 archers with flaming banner
45 lances with fc
25 white lion with musician and standard (sorcery banner)
18 swordmaster with musician and standard (swiftness banner)
2 great eagle

instead this is a very similar list but with different equip on the archmage:

archmage ts4+, forliath robe, silver wand lvl 4 (light)mage anulian lvl 1(light)mage  sigil     lvl 1 (light)bsb with GW and banner dragon of the worldcaradryan20 archers with flaming banner45 lances with fc25 white lion with musician and standard (sorcery banner)18 swordmaster with musician and standard (swiftness banner)2 great eagle

this is instead the list w/o SC (always 2500nl):

archmage hoeth lvl 4 (light)
mage anulian lvl 1(light)
mage  sigil     lvl 1 (light)
bsb with GW and Radiant Gem of Hoeth
20 archers with flaming banner
45 lances with fc
18 white lion with musician and standard (ld banner)
18 swordmaster with musician and standard (swiftness banner)
18 phoenix guard with musician and standard (sorcery banner)
2 great eagle

this is instead the classic one with shadow lore:

2500 ToS List:

bsb dragon of the world
20archers with musician/standard flame attacks
40lance with fc
20 pg  with standard, musician (sorcery banner)
30 wl fc amulet of light/ld banner
3 great eagle


teclisbsb dragon of the worldcaradryan20archers with musician/standard flame attacks40lance with fc20 pg  with standard, musician (sorcery banner)30 pg fc amulet of light/ld banner3 great eagle
or w/o sc:

archmage lvl 4 hoeth (shadow lore)
mage lvl 1 anulian (high lore)
bsb dragon of the world
20archers with musician/standard flame attacks40lance with fc20 pg  with standard, musician (sorcery banner)30 pg fc amulet of light/ld banner5 dragon prince  musician, standard (swiftness banner)2 great eaglereading your articles I notice that you guys are not used to play the bsb with dragon of the world, but just with magic equips. is it worth it? with all these mass-removal spells like 13thdread, tzeentch gates, dwellers, final trasmutation.. is it rly worth not to protect your units with heroes inside?

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