Friday, March 25, 2011

More PGK Battle Reports!

Oh man, so many games, so little time to write.  The good thing though is that I have got a ton of good experience in so I'm ready to share my results.  In these reports, you'll see optimized and balanced army lists because that's the way to victory.  I'll keep these BRs in note form because some of the games were ridiculous.

First game was against Tyranids:

Highlights here was that the game was Capture and Control on Pitched Battle.  The army list I used was this:


Grand Master (MC Psycannon, Blind, Rad) = 245
Librarian (4x Powers, Psybolts, 3x Skulls) = 190

10x GKSS (Rhino, MC DH, 2x Psycannons, Psybolts) = 295
10x GKSS (Rhino, MC DH, 2x Psycannons, Psybolts) = 295

7x Paladins (Apoth, MC DH, 2x MC Psycannons, BBanner, Psybolts, 2x MC) = 570

Dreadnought (2x TLAC, Psybolts) = 135
Dreadnought (2x TLAC, Psybolts) = 135
Dreadnought (2x TLAC, Psybolts) = 135

  • I forgot to put the skulls on the board and I rolled like ass on the scatter with my Paladins.  I mishapped and rolled a 1 on the table so my entire squad of GM, Libby and Paladins would of all died.  Good thing my opponent was a champ and reminded me of my skulls I forgot to place.  After a re-do on the scatter, my Paladins landed in front of his entire army of Termagaunts and went to town.
  • The Paladins with the GM and Libby executed most of his entire army.  I must of went through a hundred gaunts (no joke); after shooting, assaulting and having him dig through Sanctuary.  When I plowed through everything and got in range of his Trevigon, Tyrannofex and Hive Tyrant, he forfeit.  His exact words were:  "I have never seen something take so much damage."  Yes, Paladins are absolute gods vs. normal attacks/shooting.
  • My Rifledreads played counter-battery and they went through plenty of Hive Guard and forced others to go to ground.  HG die even through cover saves and any retaliation was stopped by Fortitude.  They just kept on shooting until Turn 5 when they were finally silenced by lucky shots from the Tyrannofex.
  • Paroxysm is absolutely brutal if I can't block it with my psychic hood.  The one time it went off saw a drastic decrease in combat effectiveness and shooting from my Paladin squads.  This just shows me how important psychic defense really is.
  • My GKSS held my points really well.  They shot at anything that got close and took advantage of cover to minimize damage.  For the points, I'm very satisfied that I had a unit that can put down so much fire and enjoy the safety of their Rhinos against heavier targets.


My second game was against Orks and it was 1500 points:


Librarian (3x Powers, 3x Skulls) = 180

10x GKSS (Rhino, MC DH, 2x Psycannons) = 275
10x GKSS (Rhino, MC DH, 2x Psycannons) = 275
10x GKT (MC DH, DH, rest Halberds, 2x Psycannons, BBanner, Psybolts) = 500

Dreadnought (2x TLAC, Psybolts) = 135
Dreadnought (2x TLAC, Psybolts) = 135

  • I played well this game, but man.. dice were absolutely horrible.  The mission was 3 objectives and it was Pitched Battle.
  • Early game blew up a Battle Wagon with the Psycannons shooting out of the Rhino and the explosions pinned his squad inside.  My DS came in on the spot with my Librarian and Terminators and they shot the Shoota squad to death almost.
  • Next round, his Nob squad with Cybork Bodies, FNP and all different layouts WAAGH'd and came closer with another squad of Sluggas.  OK, no big deal.  I Sanctuary, he fails a couple here and there and assaults me through difficult + dangerous terrain.  I activate force weapons with Hammer Hand and have the Terminators swing at the Nob squad with 21 Instant Death attacks at I6 S5 and deal 1 wound.  Long story short, I lost everything but 2 Terminators even though managed to kill the Warboss before he got to swing his Klaw with my Libby.
  • Next round I blow up some other vehicles and pinned another squad from the damage inflicted.  I still had a chance I thought, that was until I assaulted his Nob squad with my GKSS squad who tried to bail out the 2 Termies.  I activate force weapons, charge with 17 attacks and do no wounds.  He attacks back and kills everything I had.
  • So what did I learn?  Even though I played well, I rolled like shit and my elite army suffered for it.  There's just nothing I can do with those kind of rolls.  It's cool, we'll get 'em next time.


Game 3 was the most hysterical:


Grand Master (MC Psycannon, Blind, Rad, 2x Skulls) = 255

10x GKSS (Rhino, MC DH, 2x Psycannons, Psybolts) = 295
10x GKSS (Rhino, MC DH, 2x Psycannons, Psybolts) = 295

10x Interceptors (MC DH, 2x Psycannons, Psybolts) = 315

7x Paladins (Apoth, MC DH, 2x MC Psycannons, BBanner, Psybolts, 2x MC) = 570

Dreadnought (2x TLAC, Psybolts) = 135
Dreadnought (2x TLAC, Psybolts) = 135

  • Guess what his list was?  Daemons.  Guess what?  I lost.  In fact, I lost 9 kp (he tabled me) vs. 6 kp.  The mission was obviously Kill Points on Pitched Battle and I had the first turn.
  • Let me tell you the reason why I lost:  He was the same Blood Angels player I played earlier in my BRs and I ran over his precious marines with my GKs.  He, in turn, decides to build a mono-Khorne Daemon army with Blessing of the Blood God all over the place.  Mat Ward, in all his genius, decides to give Grey Knights all Force Weapons.  BotBG gives all Khorne daemons a 2+ invulnerable vs. Force Weapons.  What makes it even more hysterical is that I didn't take a Libby this game because I had no idea I was going to face his list, and even if I had a Libby, I'd never give him Dark Excommunication.  I just find it really ironic that Grey Knights, in all their daemonhunting glory, is extremely handicapped vs. Khorne daemons.
  • You know what, despite the obvious handicap, I played the game out and played extremely well.  I focus fired my GKSS and Interceptor squads into his Flesh Hounds and used my Rhinos to block his units and cover mine from assault.  Combined fire from multiple squads destroyed his Bloodthirster and one squad of Flesh Hounds on first turn.
  • Next turn he got the charge off from a Daemon Prince of Khorne w/ Wings and he killed/tied up a GKSS for the entire game.  This went on forever because I just couldn't get past his saves.  His Flesh Hounds got into assault with my Pallies and they tied them up for a good amount as well.  Even though I killed a bunch of the hounds, those 2+ saves kept my Pallies tied in combat along with one of my Rifledreads.  I think my Pallies got tarpitted for 2 rounds, which isn't too bad, but that's still rounds they're not shooting.
  • I charged one of my Rifledreads into his Bloodletter squads to tie them up since they couldn't hurt him but that didn't stop his Crushers who were slugging towards my Pallies.  To make things worse, those Crushers also had Skulltaker riding with them and that is a serious problem.
  • Even though my Interceptor Squad shot one of his Princes down, the fact he had 3 with Wings overwhelmed my normal units and they couldn't do any damage to him because of the 2+ invul once he's in combat.
  • The Pallies eventually broke free from the Flesh Hounds and shot/charged the squad of Blood Crushers.  Rad nades, Psyk-out nades, Hammerhand and BBanner put down 5 from assault and 2 from shooting.  This left Skulltaker alone in there to swing at my Paladins and he didn't manage to Rend/ID any to death.  One of my Pallies took a wound, he loses combat by 9 and makes all his 3+ armor saves.  Awesome.
  • Next turn, I get charged by a Herald on a Chariot and another Daemon Prince; both with Blessing of the Blood God.  Though my Pallies fought bravely, Skulltaker beheaded my Grand Master, my Paladins did nothing to his units because of Blessing and they lost combat and ran off the field.
  • At the end of the game, I analyzed my execution and battle plan and realized I didn't do anything wrong.  Everyone did what they're supposed to do, it's just that 2+ invuls in close combat vs. me means I kill nothing or get tarpitted.  Shooting is great, but with wings on all the Princes, a lot of field saturation (didn't help he got all his reserves in on time and without scatter), and beast-charging Flesh Hounds with Blessing means I'm in a world of shit.
  • It really sucks that the Librarian and the Dreadknight are the only ones to carry Dark Excommunication and it sucks even more because I'll never take that spell.  Against anything but Daemons, it's worthless and even if you get it off, all you need to do is not be in base to base with the Librarian and it doesn't work.  Did Mat Ward forget about Blessing of the Blood God when he made all Grey Knights carry Force Weapons?  I wonder..
  • Lastly, I would like to note that I'm a fan of the Interceptors.  The 30" shunt gave me the ability to reposition instantly and support my GKSS squads in the execution of his Bloodthirster and Flesh Hounds.  If they didn't have the extra fire support, I would of had a BT with Blessing amok my lines and that would of meant a lot of dead dudes.


Unknown said...

This is why you take Coteazzzzzzzzzzz lol.

lucianprime said...

Hey hero
Love hearing the battle reports they are a true godsend for ppl without the book like me. I have noticed in these latest battle reports you havent taken purifiers are you finding them too many points for the punch VS other elite slot choices like paladins or that more scoring units (without grand strategy) are the way to go to use the other options grand strategy provides like scout?

Dregon said...

Hero, one minor question, what are the MC abbreviations for at the end of the paladin list? You have two of them, but i understood that to mean master crafted. I am fairly new to GK army since i never delved into them in the past.

Kraggi said...

Enjoying these posts while I await my minis and codex.

Keep posting please!

Valegorn said...

@ Dregon: MC (master crafted) or at least I think thats what it means. In the PDF Paladins can master craft any of their weapons. HERO has had a chance to look at the official codex, I'm assuming that from it being in all his lists, the MC option stayed in there.

@HERO; I had a question, do you ever use the Paladin psychic power (hammerhand I believe it is) or do you save that psychic test for Instant death?

Duke of Earl said...

So Khorne Daemons can hand Grey Knights their heads?


Anonymous said...

Do you still take Halberds on the Paladin squad?

Dalinair said...

I like this way of doing battle reports, very good.

Anonymous said...

I believe you only get the 2+ invul if you use your force weapon, as a force weapon, not just a power weapon.

MathMan said...

Interesting. I thought if you had a special CCW you had the option not to use it (which would be mostly useful for power fists, but would've saved your bacon here) but I can't find any rule to allow this.

I'm not sure GK are actually meant to have massive advantadges against Daemons. They have Preferred Enemy, of course, but that might just be to balance the fact that all GK's combat power is based on having force weapons, and everything in the Daemon army has invulnerable saves -- in assault against Daemons, GKSS might as well be bog-standard Tac Marines if they didn't have Preferred Enemy.

Gornall said...

Thanks for the batreps. Its interesting to see the pallies do so well, but I wonder how they would fare against IG DE SW or "Sallies".

Gareth said...

21 attacks and only 1 wound. Dude, I would have wanted to give you a mulligan. I mean... DAMN.

Byron said...

Good reports. Sadly, the Termies rolled so bad it's hard to draw many conclusions concerning their use vs paladins. Question, what Strategy did you use from the GM in the 1st & 3rd BR? If you don't mind unsolicited feedback, I was wondering why you gave your libby in the 2nd BR psybolts. Do you think those points are worth it on one guy? In my opinion, it may have been better to drop one of the skulls and the bolts (not sure on point costs) and pick up psychotrope(can't remember exact name atm) grenades, or something else. Skulls are great but I'm not sure you need 3 of them when you're not running any blast weapons. Just a thought and certainly you have more experience then I do thus far. Also, with BS 6 on the GM, the MC psycannon might be overkill since I recall that is pretty costly upgrade. You thoughts/reasons?

Also, I haven't seen you run any purgator squads yet. Is that because you like the dreads so much or just taking your time analyzing other things before you get to them? I was thinking of running a squad of them with 2-4 psilencers. They lack AP and ability to kill tanks, but the saturation of fire they can give is impressive and when you don't have AP on your guns you also don't mind giving a lot of opponents a 4+ save through their psychic power. It sucks that they are heavy weapons and only 24" range but they are a cheaper weapon choice. Your thoughts?

Vogrin said...

Interesting - with 2 GKSS and the Interceptors, I would have thought you could have blocked off a HUGE area with Warp Quake to prevent him from coming in where he wanted. Was this not the case, or did you forget they had that power available?

Anonymous said...

He used warp quake with masterful precision. He took midfield and spread out. I just struck outside the range and surrounded him.

HERO played like a God vs my Daemons, problem was solely the 2++ and the mass unit saturation with fast assaults to tie him up.

HERO said...

Yes, I did use Warp Quake. In every round I wasn't in combat, I was using WQ to fend off DSers while shooting at the most important targets.

For any mission that is KP, I normally use Hammer of the Righteous for the re-roll 1s. Counter-attack is also pretty good if he's using a assault-heavy army that's faster than you.

As for the psychic powers, I let the BBanner auto-pass the Paladin's Force Weapon tests and I use the GM to cast Hammerhand on the unit on Ld.10.

If I was to take Purgation units, I would probably take Incinerator on them because they're dirt cheap. All you need to do is drive them up and flame a bunch of infantry and you've made your points back. 140 for 5x with 4x Incinerators in a Razorback is ridiculously good. You can also take an extra 5 points for Psybolt Ammo on the RB and all of a sudden you have a mini-Assault Cannon.

As for Master-Crafted, they're only 5 points on the Paladins and the GM. I don't feel bad MCing things because they help with wound allocation and increases damage overall. Paladins w/ MC Psycannons pull off a ton more hits over the course of the game. Your GM might miss a couple of shots and a re-rollable 2+ for 5 points is much better than a re-roll on a 6 cause of BS6. I think that's worth it imo, especially if that shot kills a tank (which it has).

HERO said...

Purifiers are good if you're not taking Paladins. I've tried Purifiers, they die like regular marines and I have enough GKSS to die like "normal". I take Paladins because they make a bigger impact on the battle imo.

Byron said...

Interesting food for thought and I'm glad I remembered wrong the on the cost of MC for GM, thanks!

Pyriel said...

Blessing of the Blood God gives a 2+ save against the effects of Force Weapons, effects not wounds.

Khorne do not get a 2+ inv save against power weapons or force weapons that do not activate the ID ability.

Besides if you want to take this even further, the GKs dont have force weapons, they have nemesis force weapons:)

I´m sure this stupid blanket 2+ inv save will be FAQed away pretty soon. It is obvious this was never intended and it is equally logical that the collar of khorne protects from the ID ability of force weapons and not its normal power weapon usage.

Lee Zag said...

@Pyriel. Blessings states and I quote "The Daemon has a 2+ invulnerable save against wounds caused by psychic powers and force weapons."

The Nemesis Force Weapons entry states and I quote, "All nemesis weapons are force weapons,"

They indeed get a 2++ against all pure GK CC attacks, Crowe excluded.

A pure Khorne list will guarantee that any GK list without a Nemesis Dreadknight will not beat them. Talk about a hard counter in tournament play.

Just shoot the big nasties, they'll die. The only models with access to Blessings are Blood thirsters, heralds, daemon princes, and hounds.

Duke of Earl said...

Dreadknights have nemesis doom fists, which are force weapons.

Lyracian said...

@Lee, Do you not count the Dreadnoughts as pure GK's?

I bet those Knights wished they had normal Thunder Hammers instead of Nemesis ones! At only five points Excommunication may get taken in tournament lists just to stop the almost certain loss against a Khorne army.

Anonymous said...

Interesting Battle Report, I would be interested to see your army with some paladins against eldars or dark eldars because I think they probably are the worst army to fight with this type of unit.

Anonymous said...

Great reports!

..but will pure GK be a top tier army? ..hmmm

Pyriel said...

Ah, my fault. I was sure the collar only worked on the force weapon effect not its wounds.

But as only HQs and like one fragile squad can take this upgrade the GKs should treat these as any other SM army, shoot shoot and shoot some more.

Libbies will be very popular in GK armies and dark excommunication pretty much takes care of the few collar:ed khorne princes and HQs GK will face.

Anonymous said...

Actually Dark excommunication won't really do much at all honestly. It only works on 1 unit, and only the unit the libby is in base contact with...

So how about we just multiassault and have skulltaker take care of that libby :)

Sea Dragon said...

Moros said...

Actually Dark excommunication won't really do much at all honestly. It only works on 1 unit, and only the unit the libby is in base contact with...

So how about we just multiassault and have skulltaker take care of that libby :)

I hate comments like this, so you have multiple units to assault that 1 Librarian AND a special character. For that amount lets just say I have a dreadknight....

We end up playing hypothetical scenarios all day look and don't get anywhere.

Instead we have to look at the fact that a pure khorne demon army is going to be comparatively rare and as a result it's more likely to be the result of a tailored list against the Grey Knights.

At that point you start ending up with huge amounts of Tailoring from the grey knight. Besides Psycannon's, Storm bolters, Incinerators still kill the demons dead.

That said, 1-2 librarians with Dark Excommunication supported by a dreadknight or two are going to rapidly start chewing through your demon units. Especially supported by terminators... A small army but one your collars will be a waste of money against.

IG are going to be more of a problem for GK's, or Eldar or DE.

HERO said...

While I frown upon army tailoring completely, I do agree that Dark Excommunication is a bit ass.

Dagron XIII said...

Agreed. Besides, the fact is that this Korne army is never going to see competitive tournament play. The 2+ invulnerable is great against GK, but the army probably wouldn't fair well against all the other non-GK players so no one would take it. One or two units, sure. A whole army, I think not.

Anonymous said...

I agree

for competitive play that army will never see the light of day. A daemon army in a tournament will probably have a couple soul grinders and multiple unit types (read: non-monogod). Also, against all of the "normal" armies that they will encounter, it isn't a good idea for them to spend points on the blessing, because it will do them no good.

A nice way to counter a GK army, but you won't encounter it often and GKs can play that game too!

Pyriel said...

Still hard to belive a khorne army is anything close to overpowered vs GKs.
The blessing (collar) is only available for khorne HQs, princes (heavy slot) and a hound squad.

Its not like the whole army with hordes of blood letters and crushers run around with 2++ saves.

The HQ and prince nasties, well, just treat them like any other SM army treats them, shoot them dead!
Hounds go down to bolter fire quicker then quick and princes and even thirsters go down to psycannons really fast.

Then there is a measly 5p psychic power that takes away any blessing they might have and makes that big scary thing instant killable in Cc.

I went and tried a pure GK army vs a khorne one and the poor sods stood no chance in hell, even with blessings here and there.

What is the problem?

HERO said...

I'm pretty sure if I went in with a list to kill Daemons I'd have no problem either ;)

Anonymous said...

A minor point that might help in the future- the strike squads with Psycannons trade in their Nemesis Force Weapon, if I'm not mistaken- admittedly a meagre 2 attacks, but doing agaist a 3+ armour save is preferable to a 2+ invun.

HERO said...

Yeah, we counted those.

Pyriel said...

Just read the batrep GK vs deamons in the new white dwarf.
There were blessings of khorne used and also dark banishment powers.

The blessings do indeed offer a 2++ save vs ALL GK close combat attacks, if it´s a nemesis force weapon it gets saved on a 2++ so the turn-of-the-sword-crowd need not bother any more.

On to the fun part, the dark excommunication was used quite heavily and not only did it turn of all blessings in every deamon model in melee but also made deamon units that have special rules completely toothless.
I thought the power only removed blessings taken as wargear but it turns out it does remove all deamonic powers on all deamons affected by it, thus if you cast dark excommunication on deamonettes they will loose their rending special ability and if you cast it on blood letters they will loose the hellblades (power weapon status) and all attacks become normal.

Chaosrex said...

You all bitch about the 2++ on like what 5 models in the army...

And those freakin Dreadknights can negate our only weapon and wargear from the whole codex?...

Since when does an army get is rules and wargear negateted?, shit this Ward fucktard is really something...

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