6th Ed. CSM book review

Ready for Eternal War!

Originally posted by me on BoLS.

I'm just going to go out and say it, I love Phil Kelly.  This man has brought us many great works and the new Chaos Space Marine codex is no different.

He leaves his trademark design elements in the codex because he allows you, the player, the ability to customize your army as you see fit.  The best thing about all of his books is that he gives you options.  Options that can be kept cheap, so you can field of what you love, and options that can gear your army out to the teeth but at a competitive price.  This is why I believe Phil Kelly is the best GW designer.

+++Disclaimer+++
This is long!
Be prepared to read :)

This review is not going to be a direct compare and contrast of the old CSM book.  I will still compare a little bit here and there, but the reason I'd like to avoid this is because this is the first codex to be written in 6th Ed.  If we think back to what GW designers did with 8th Ed. Fantasy, we might assume that this codex is what's going to determine the scale of power and direction that future 40K books will be written.  Whether or not this is true is unknown until the next couple of books come out.

Let us explore some of the options in the new CSM book shall we?

Chaos Dreams: Death Guard

Enlarge me.

Pretty lame title, I know, but as of right now, most of the upcoming CSM info has been released to the public.  Just in case you guys have been living under a rock the last couple of days, check it out here.

So what's the point of his post?  Well, I just wanted to think outloud and explore some options I have as a Death Guard player.  Now that I know the Plague Marines in the codex will be 24ppm, gain Plague Knives (4+ Poison) and keep everything else (-1 Ld I think, but gain the option to upgrade to Veteran), I think it's time to develop some lists.  Keep in mind that one of the most intriguing things int he upcoming codex is the fact that Typhus will be able to make Cultists Zombies.  I don't know the exact wording on the zombies yet, but if they count as scoring, things are going to be pretty disgusting.  They keep basic Cultist stats but gain FNP, Fearless and Slow and Purposeful.

Hmm.. what kind of army should I field?
Let's see..

For larger armies, I think I'll go with this:
Typhus w/ 7x Terminators, Mark of Nurgle, CbPlasma
Full unit of Cultist Zombies
3x-4x 7-man units of Death Guard, Plasma Guns, Power Fists
Epidemis, 7x Plaguebearers
1x 7-man unit of Havoc with ACs, manning a ADL/Quad-Gun, Mark of Nurgle
2x unit of Oblits, Mark of Nurgle (yes, they can take Marks!)

I don't like the new dragon looking dog mechanics, so the only new models I'll probably pick up is the plastic Raptors.  What do you guys think?

More CSM rumors from BoK!

From Blood of Kittens!

Rumor Has It: CSM Codex Rumor Drop Part 2

Posted by TastyTaste on Aug 11, 2012

Thanks for waiting everyone.

If you missed my first drop here is a link to take you back a few weeks.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/07/23/rumor-has-it-csm-codex-rumor-drop/

First off, I want to say that it just doesn’t make any sense for GW to release the new Starter Set with models that doesn’t have a codex, so we have to assume that CSM codex will be out before the starter set. The only way they don’t  (would be a big slap in the face) would be they add a mini update like Daemons and still put off the CSM codex release.

Anyway on to more rumors/leaks.

CSM Live Q&A being reported!

Do you hear the voices too?!

Well, not on my blog, but on Faeit 212's site he has a person there who has all the info it seems.

I don't know what else to say, but I've been spamming updates as we go.  I'll have all the compiled info here.  Refresh the page if you don't want to sort through all the unanswered questions since I'll only post what he answered here!

Update: 10:57pm PST - The guy went to sleep, so I have everything updated below.

+++++GIANT WALL OF TEXT INCOMING+++++

More Death Guard on the way!

My Death Guard on the table.

Well, the CSM codex is expected to drop in September and I'm happy to report that my Death Guard are ready to go.  In fact, they're so ready that I placed an order today from FW to get more DGs.  Right now, I have 35 built and ready:  4 of them are Champs w/ Fists, 2 of them have banners which might need replacing, 4 of them have Plasma Guns, 4 have Meltaguns and rest are Bolters.

I have to remake some of my Death Guard Terminators so they'll be ready for the new book.  From what I read from the rumors, there are no Cult Terminators in the game.  However, you are able to mix Marks and Icons on your units so they can potentially gain +1T and FNP.  I really hope this rumor is true because that'll mean all the DG units I have will be well-represented on the battlefield.

One of the things that excites me the most is the ability to take allies with CSM.  I'll be shifting heavy focus to the CSM codex once the book comes out so I can unlock the book's true potential.  As for what kind of lists I'll make, here's what I plan on doing:

• Typhus or Chaos Lord w/ MoN (this really depends on who's the most cost effective choice)
• Zombies if I take Typhus as a huge unit of fodder (supposed Fearless, FNP and cause Fear)
• Death Guard Plague Marines (if the lord unlocks these guys as troops)
• Some regular CSM troops w/ MoN
• A unit of 7x Terminators w/ assorted combi-weapons, MoN and hopefully FNP
• As for heavy support, I hear Havocs w/ MoN will be back so I'll probably do that
• That reminds me, I'll probably need to buy an Aegis Defense Line..
• I don't think Oblits fit the Nurgle theme, but I need to find some cost effective AT options.
• Last, but certainly not least, I'll take Plaguebearers and Epidemis because the combo is just too good not to.

There are 3 rumors that really scare me:

• Plague Marines going up in price, but gain Poisoned Weapons.  I'm not sure what this means, but if its 25ppm, I would be fine with that.  If it's more like 30, they better be freaking godlike or else I won't be able to justify the points.  And if the Poisoned Weapons mean Poisoned in shooting and in close combat, that's just utterly ridiculous.
• The second thing is the Chaos Lord with a specific mark being able to unlock "cult" units as troops (since they're going to be Elites).  If this is not true, well, that freaking sucks because it means I'll have to take Typhus every game.  What if I don't want to take Typhus and want to build my own Lord of Nurgle?
• The last thing is the Marks being meshed with Icons (if true); or rather if +1T and FNP on regular CSM will be most cost effective than Plague Marines.  I'm a little worried how this will turn out because it's really up in the air how good or bad this can be.  I hate the idea that units have to hold a stupid Icon, that once you kill that model you lose the FNP or whatever.  That's just ridiculous.

Alrighty, it's time for me to ask some questions:

• What is the most cost effective and fluffy option for heavy support choices for Death Guard?  Let's take some wild stabs in the air shall we?
• What kind of allies (outside of Epidemis) do you think will help Death Guard the most?
• What do you think about all the new CSM units? (check my last post for the actual rumors)

Random Fact:
Did you guys know that Seekers of Slaanesh are one of the most underrated units in the game?  10 of them costs 170 points, but on the charge they put out 50 WS4 I6 S3 Rending attacks!  Even though they are T3 and only sport a 5++, they have cavalry movement (12" move, ~7" charge), Fleet, have offensive and defensive grenades, and have Hammer of Wrath.  With a combined threat range of 19" charge that's not slowed by terrain, they can murder entire squads of MEQ at a time if left unchecked.  Talk about getting your money's worth.

Chaos Space Marine rumors!

My Death Guard will finally return to the table!

This is originally from Blood of Kittens, I'm just relaying the info!

-Release date: September 1st (my guess as well)
-Hard back (my guess as well)
-There is an Eye of the Gods-like table ~like the WFB  Warriors of Chaos table.
You get to roll on whenever a character kills another character in a challenge, or a Walker or Monstrous Creature. There is a multitude of gifts (and curses) that your Characters can acquire which range from +1 Save, +1 Toughness, or becoming either a Spawn or a Daemon Prince!!! (Sorta True — trying to lump all the funky stuff into one table  is not totally accurate. CSM codex is table land. Expect many random charts and upgrades it will be hard to keep track.)
-Chaos Cultists are in (true– said this and others before)
-The Dragon flyer is in  – think Necron Night Scythe with the main chassis replaced by a massive mechanical dragon head with segmented wings sweeping forward and around from it. (True – The thing looks like a dragon head attached to the Owl from Clash of the Titans)
-Dark Apostles – ~Word Bearers rejoice!!! (True– but more of cultist leader/moral buffer)
-Warp Smiths – Chaos Techmarines that can curse vehicles and degrade terrain. ~maybe they’ll have anti-psychotic grenades ( True -Think Doc Ock )
-New Daemon Engine – half way between a Dreadnought and a Defiler. (True -I would say halfway between Defiler and Trygon)
-Defilers are Daemons and have a 5+ Inv save. (Yes a Demon, and some extra lovin…)
-’Cult’ units are all Elites and are unlocked to Troops by appropriate HQ choices (True- Said this before, but have some good news on that front)
-No Cult Terminators ~boo hiss!!! (-True, boo hiss!!!)
-Obliterators are exclusively for shooting – so no powerfists. (-False they will shoot, but still have a powerfist)
HOWEVER there is a new unit which is basically a close combat Obliterator. (True)
-There are 2 types of Raptors now: regular CSMs with Jump Packs, and Possessed Daemonic Raptors with Lightning Claws. (True)
-Possessed take multiple benefits from the Eye of the Gods table. (not sure)
-NO Daemons in the Codex. (true, but allies FTW!)

My CSM predictions for the next book

I have an entire Forgeworld Death Guard army sitting at home doing nothing this edition.  Part of me wants to go out there and play them and the other part of me actually wants to win a game.  Keep in mind that I'm not saying it's impossible for CSM to win a game, but I don't think they can win in the manner that people want them to.  Why?  Because just like the Tyranid codex in 5th, the CSM codex was the worst codex to be released in 4th.

It's bad in a way that confuses players in terms of unit choices and leaves them with limited no-brainer options.  This severely limits a player's ability to make war with the units that he wants.  It's either because the units pale in comparison to others so much that it's stupid not to take them or they just plain out suck.  To me, there's nothing more frustrating than playing with an army book with a limited unit selection.  I want to be able to take whatever I want and make things work.  Just look at Space Wolves, you can take almost anything in the codex and make it work.  That's what I want for my Chaos Space Marines.

So what am I looking for next edition?

• Marks over Icons.  You gotta be kidding me with Chaos Icons.  I mean, shit, there's no way in hell that Chaos Marines who share an allegiance with their godly patron suddenly lose their blessing for losing a god damn standard.  Ridiculous.
• Overall stat boosts across all Chaos HQs.  This means WS7 Chaos Lords with at least 4 attacks.  He may either get some kind of 4++ equiv or be able to take Terminator armor.
• Chaos Markings will be pretty similar methinks.  This means Khorne gets +1A, Nurgle gets +1T, Tz gets +1 sv. to their Invul and Slaanesh with +1I.  I don't mind this at all, and I think it works quite nice with 40K.  Who knows, if we're lucky, we'll see a lot of minor upgrades unique to the gods in the same manner as the Space Wolf trinkets.
• Some form of psychic protection, definitely.  I'm confident we'll see the Sorcerer take some kind of protection that'll cause the enemy psyker to take perils.  It's fluffy and it makes sense in that respect.  Chaos needs some kind of psychic protection and it will be offensive in nature.
• This also means that Chaos Sorcerers will also gain access to a good amount of psychic powers.  SM had an good amount, SW too, BA had even more and GK lol.  I'm expecting to see all kinds of psychic powers in there for Tz, Nurgle and Slaanesh.  Keep in mind that I'm expecting 1 page dedicated to powers from all the gods.  I highly doubt they'll break them up like they did in Fantasy.
• Chaos Space Marines will probably be the most "cost effective" unit choice in the book.  If I was the next designer, I would bring back Veteran Skills.  Why?  The answer is simple and effective:  Because no one will take CSM over Plague Marines unless they do something unique.  Maybe they won't bring back Veteran Skills, but you bet your ass that the basic CSM trooper will be worth taking in their own rights.  Whether its by price, or the fact they can carry 2 specials or 2 heavies or 1 of each, or something else, they're going to be worth it.
• You will still be able to take iconic units like Plague Marines, Rubric Marines, Khorne Berserkers and Noise Marines.  Don't worry, I don't think these guys will get moved to elite or anything.  If they do, they'll risk removing a huge chunk of the army and suffer the same catastrophic FOC problem that Tyranids do.
• By the latest trend in book design, I don't think the next CSM book will see the return of Legions.  I think it will be focused on the four main god-legions:  World Eaters (Khorne), Thousand Sons (Tzeentch), Emperor's Children (Slaanesh) and Death Guard (Nurgle).
• This also means that Abaddon is going to be a complete beast, Typhus, Kharn and Lucius will be pretty good, and fill in the rest here.  There's always one badass SC in every new codex we see, so I'm definitely betting on Abaddon being that.
• Overall, I foresee a huge points drop for everything and many things getting boosted.  I can see Obliterators get their stats boosted (T5 maybe? or 3W?), CSM being able to take LRCs and possessed vehicle upgrades as plentiful/cheap as Extra Armor.  Havocs will probably see better days as well.  Depending on what happens to the Chaos Terminators, we might see the return of Chosen Terminators (or Chosen with the option to take TDA like Wolf Guard).
• Lastly, I predict that the book will be written by Mat Ward.  He seems to have an affinity to all Space Marines.  Him or Phil Kelly, but I think Kelly's doing SoB.