Building Demons - Thinking Outloud

Shit just got real man.

If you guys saw my last brainstorm, you'll know that before I saw any rules/points, I already had an idea of what I want.

Here is what I wrote previously:

• The army will be led by a Keeper of Secrets.
• The army will also have a Lord of Change if I like the rules, or just two smaller heralds.
• The army will have several units of Daemonettes - I was thinking maybe 12 in each squad; 6x2.
• The army will also have 12 Seekers.  Love the models, the style, looks good man.
• The army will have 9 Flamers of Tzeentch.  Love the models, the rules look good too.
• The army will have 6 Fiends of Slaanesh.  The models are great, the rules are great, they definitely scream Slaanesh like crazy.
• The army will have 3 Burning Chariots of Tzeentch.  Why?  Because I am in LOVE with the models.  Plus I hear they're the best anti-tank in the army.

Now that the rules are here, let's revisit the army with the new rules.

The army will definitely have a Keeper of Secrets still, even though the Lord of Change seems like an extremely potent choice.  Let's go over the two and compare them:


Keeper of Secrets
170 points
Monstrous Creature, Daemon of Slaanesh (Rending, Fleet, +3" Run)
WS9 BS6 S6 T6 W5 I10 A6 Ld. 9
Psyker 1
Preferred Enemy Eldar/Dark Eldar
Can get psyker level 3 for 25 points each
Can roll on Slaanesh lore and Telepathy
Can take 50 points in gifts: Lesser is 10 points, Greater is 20 and Exalted is 30.

Lord of Change
230 points
Flying Monstrous Creature, Daemon of Tzeentch (Re-roll failed rolls of 1)
WS6 BS6 S6 T6 W5 I6 A5 Ld. 9
Psyker 2, can buy Lv.3 for 25 points
Can roll on Tz lore and Divination
Can take up to 50 points in gifts just like the KoS

If I were to make a decision now, I would say the Keeper of Secrets.  WS9 is brutal in close combat and I10 means you're going before anyone else.  Telepathy is also super good with Slaanesh, in both fluff and in terms of Psychic Shriek (Primaris), Invisibility, Puppet Master, and Halluncination.  The only sad part about is that it only has a 5++ as a save, T6 and W5.  To kite him out, I'll probably go +100 points for Lv.3, 2x Greater Gifts and 1x Lesser.  In fact, I don't think I'll ever go anything different than 2x/1x Greater/Lesser gifts simply because the defensive bonuses from the Greater gifts are just so desirable over anything else.  I mean, come on, T7 KoS or Lord of Change with It Will Not Die?  3+ armor save?  FNP 4+ or re-roll invul?  Even the 18" S8 AP1 Assault 1 Lance with a BS6 KoS/LoC is great.  Lastly, the close combat attacks having Armorbane and Lifebane is just silly.  Hands down, the greater gifts are the best.

Just because I chose a 270 point Keeper of Secrets, the Lord of Change is a great buy too.  If he takes a 10 point Lesser gift and go with the weapon, he automatically gets a +2S staff that has Concussive, instantly making him S8 who attacks at I6, has WS6 and 5 MC attacks.  Some say this is even better than a BT!  What really makes him stand out is that he's flying and automatically gives him the needed resilience over a Keeper.  In short, I would make a Lv.3, pick up the Primaris on Tz and 2 more powers from Divination.  Defensive Greater gifts is a must, and so is that Lesser Gift staff that makes people explode.  As of now, he comes out to be 305 points.

As for Heralds, I'm looking at a couple right now.

Actually, it's exactly a couple since I chose to align myself to Slaanesh and Tzeentch.  Here's how they'll be kited out:

Herald of Tzeentch
Lv.3 Divination, Disc
Comes out to 120 points, or 145 for a Chariot

Gains T4, Jetbike, is a Lv.3 Psyker that's fast and can keep up with a faster army.  Buffs all over the place, Prescience, hoping for Misfortune, or gives a beloved 4++ that's missing army-wide (save Fateweaver).  It just seems to be the best use of points for someone like that.  Honestly, he's a BA Libby on crack, that spreads LoS and allocation goodness to Flamers, which I also plan on taking.  If he rides in the Chariot, great, a few more points gives him AV10 on all sides, 3 hull points, and an all important Faster, Skimmer option that allows for faster flying, protection, and a 5+ Jink save.  Divination is amazing, and I can't see this army running without some bird/moon faces.

Herald of Slaanesh
Presence of Seduction
30 points in gifts right now, but this will drop if Presence costs points
Let's just say this is 75 points right now on foot, 90 on a Seeker.  If you know anything about me, you'll know that I'm all about fast, fragile, CHEAP, but deadly ICs aka Succubi.

What's amazing about the Presence of Seduction is that your entire unit re-rolls to hit.  Have her hang out with a unit of 20 Daeonettes and watch your opponents sweat as no one wants to take 61 WS5 S3 Rending attacks that re-rolls to hit in close combat.  Presence states that she must challenge right?  That's fine.  The reason why that's fine is because she can pick out who she wants to fight.  Beefy IC hanging out with a squad that has a Sarge with PF?  I'll take the Sarge.  With 30 points worth of gifts, she can easily obtain a +1S AP2 Master-Crafted weapon.  The Herald already has WS7, I7, S4 and 4 attacks, and with that kind of weapon, I'm fine with when taking challenges.  You put the girl on a Seeker and she's only going to get better.  That's +1A for this fine lady, gains Cavalry, Outflanking and Acute Senses.  Suit her up and take her with a bunch of fast ass Seekers that have 3A each and you're good to go.

Now that that's done, it's important to know that each HQ slot can give you 4 Heralds.  That's 8 total if you want, and all of them are quite good.  The Nurgle Herald is just fantastic and the Khorne one is no slouch.  But like I said before, I'm dedicated to this Slaanesh/Tzeentch army.

Alright, now looking at the core of the army, what do I have?

I'll tell you what:  An epic ass ton of Daemonettes.
Let's take 2 units of 20, and give them an Icon.  Let's just pretend it's 10 points right now since we don't know.  That's 9x20 + 10 or so, so let's pretend they're 200 points.

200 points buys you 20 Daemonettes, which is a ton more bodies for the points you were spending before.  They lose grenades, but gain some pretty ridiculous benefits with the Herald.  Total with the Herald, it's 275 points for these ladies and I think I'll be taking 2 of these.

TROOP:
20x Daemonettes (Stuff) = 200
20x Daemonettes (Stuff) = 200
6x Daemonettes = 54
6x Daemonettes = 54

Total: 508

I'm honestly thinking about running smaller MSU units of 6x Daemonettes and just having them hold ground. If you think about it, they don't care if they get shot at because they're 1. not going to run, 2. don't care about morale, 3. will soak up shots if they get fired upon aka target saturation, 4. you can always DS them and run 'em to claim objectives.  With a +3" to run, they might as well be moving normally while ignoring difficult terrain as soon as they come down.

Lastly (for now), we have the Seekers.  They're Cavalry, 12ppm, and come with Outflank and Acute Senses.  The biggest draw here is that they're 12 points man, with Outflank.  Sure, they can't charge on the turn they come in, but 20 of these on your flank equates to 80 WS5 S3 Rending attacks at I5.  For 240 points.  TWO-FORTY.  This is not even including the Herald which can join them and make them all all re-roll hits.  When you have something like that in your opponent's mind, the amount of sick mind games is just out of control.  The best part?  Cavalry rules, with Slaanesh fleet that gives +6" more, and Rending Hammer of Wrath before you even start swinging.

Let's go with 20 Seekers for now for 240.

OK, so now that that's out of the way, let's look at Flamers.  The big surprise here, is that their weapon has now changed to S4 AP4 Warpflame.  Warpflame means if anyone takes an unsaved wound from the attack, take a toughness test.  If you fail, you take D3 additional wounds with no armor or cover saves.  But you pass, the enemy who just passed gains +1 to their FNP.  Units without FNP gets a 6+, and units with it gets improved by +1.  Kinda eh.. but it's similar to the Warriors of Chaos change to show that Tzeentch is fickle.

Flamers kept their WD stats and points, but they now shoot out S4 AP4 templates instead of auto-winning everything in life.  This keeps their role to be anti-infantry, and makes them much more effective vs. T3 and lower.  And you know what?  I will be keeping in the army regardless because I like their rules.  They will be held in reserve and ready to pounce once the field is secure.  If my guess is correct, they will be 217 points provided the Champion costs 10 points to buy.  Always buy the Champion now, it gives you the ability to play LoS.

So that's 217.

What about Fiends?  What's changed with them?
Well, the big ones here is that they're no longer S5, but gain a wound.  That makes them 3W models now.  WS4 and A3, but the big one here is that they get new special rules.  What is that exactly?  Well, models in base contact with them have their Initiative reduced by 5.  That basically screams, NO, I'm going first.  Another thing about them is that they have a 12" aura that decreases enemy psyker leadership by 1.  This combos with another piece that I'll reveal in a little bit.

Overall, they went up 5 points and have cool new rules.  Still S4 Rending with 3A each, but nowhere near as dominate as they were in the past.  How I feel about them is a little iffy, mainly because I6 is fast enough to go before anyone else, and that I'd rather see higher S rending attacks in its place.  The fact that they don't have plastic models (yet) puts them on a maybe for me.

What I will buy an ass ton of are the new Chariots of Tzeentch.
This is what we know about them:
AV10 all around, Open-Top, Fast, Skimmer, Chariot
2 kinds of attacks:  S5 AP3 Torrent, Warpfire, or D3 S9 AP2 with 18" range at BS4.  Both attacks have Warpflame.  The Exalted Flamer dude has 3W.
From what I read in the rumors, the Screamers weren't changed at all, so this Chariot also comes stock with 2 Screamers and their armorbane attacks.  Now I'm not sure on this so don't quote me yet, but it seems like this is the case.
This guy comes in at 100 points even, with a Blue Horror upgrade that gives -1 Ld for every enemy unit within 6" for 10 points.  I think this is almost mandatory to have.

What you have here, is a Dark Eldar Ravager on crack.  It's a little fickle because of the D3 S9 shots, but it's flexibility is what's amazing.  S5 AP3 Torrent is a great way to light something up; move 12", extend 12" and pull out your flamer template.  That's something that can reach out and hurt someone really bad, ignoring cover saves while you're getting a lovely 5+ jink.  The -1 Ld is just a great upgrade as it allows you to leadership bomb someone hard enough provided all of them rush forward and turbo-charge.  You can relocate to somewhere rapidly, maybe not firing but hanging out with Fiends while he Psychic Shrieks some Psyker in the face.  Who knows, it's funny, and possibly effective if the right situation calls for it.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I think I'll drop the Fiends and get some Screamers.  Those things are kinda vicious, especially if nothing has changed about them.  Now that Tzeentch has access to Divination, you can imagine the craziness.

THREE TZ CHARIOTS NOW = 300

Let's total it up for make-shift army list:

Keeper of Secrets = 270
+100 points worth of shit, Lv.3 Telepathy

Lv.3 Divination Tz Moontrollface on Disc = 120
Herald of Slaanesh on foot, 30 points of gifts = 75
Herald of Slaanesh on foot, 30 points of gifts = 75
Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker, 30 points of gifts = 90

HQ TOTAL: 630, seems legit, or standard in Daemons


TROOP:
20x Daemonettes (Stuff) = 200
20x Daemonettes (Stuff) = 200
6x Daemonettes = 54
6x Daemonettes = 54

TROOP TOTAL: 508, fuck Horrors, they blow

FAST ATTACK:
20x Seekers = 240

ELITE:
9x Flamers + Champ = 217

HEAVY:
3x Tz Chariots with Blue Horror upgrades = 330
110 ea


Grand Total:
1925, just below the 2K I was shooting for.

Oh, shit, forgot Fiends or Screamers.  A unit of 9x WD Screamers is 225 points.  That means I can afford to drop the Herald on Seeker for 90 points to spend on the Masque or something, save 15 points, take Screamers instead, and float 100 points for something else.

OR, I can drop the Flamers maybe, since I already have S5 AP3 Torrent flamers and a bunch of face-raping Daemonettes who's hungry for blood.  Hmm... good idea, let's see what that looks like:

1995

HQ:
Lv.3 Keeper of Secrets = 270
2 Greater Gifts, 1 Lesser Gift

Lv.3 Divination Herald of Tz = 120
Disc, hangs out with flying skysharks

Herald of Slaanesh, 30 point of gifts = 75

Herald of Slaanesh, 30 point of gifts = 75

Masque of Slaanesh = 75

TROOP:
20x Daemonettes (Icon) = 205
20x Daemonettes = 180
6x Daemonettes = 54
6x Daemonettes = 54

FAST ATTACK:
9x Screamers = 225
10x Seekers = 120

ELITE:
9x Flamers of Tz (Pyrocaster) = 212

HEAVY:
Tz Chariot (Blue Horror) = 110
Tz Chariot (Blue Horror) = 110
Tz Chariot (Blue Horror) = 110

OK.

What you have here is a work of art.  I dropped all upgrade options on one of the Daemonette blobs and brought the Seekers down to 10.  Sure, you don't have as much of a presence, but they're still dangerous if you make them out flank.  Because I'm not taking so much, I decided to add the Masque.  Now, she can be really deadly if used right with her 3 new dances, so make sure you check those out in the rumors and see.  The added Screamers give me an anti-vehicle and anti-Terminator unit, cooped with a Divination Herald, it can make for some really silly shit.  Especially since they all move at the same speed because they're Jetbikes.  Prescience on a unit of Screamers?  Good fucking lord.

I kept my Flamers because I have a soft spot for them and they give me great templates upon templates.  This coupled with my Tz Chariots that gives me more templates upon templates and I'm looking at an army that's great in CC, great in speed, a lot of board presence, a lot of anti-everything, and absolutely NO ANTI-AIR.  Why?  Because I hate the Soul Grinder and I don't give a fuck. Maybe replace Seekers with Fiends, who knows?

GG all.  HERO out.