You know, for such a characterful army, there's a lot of SW players out there that bring shame to Russ and the All-father. That's right, I said it. I've seen too many RB spam lists as of late and and the number of Thunderwolf + Wolf Lord lists sicken me. Recently, a friend of mine participated in a tournament and six Space Wolf players placed in the top 10. Out of the six that placed, half was wound-allocated TWC and the other was RB spam.
Now I don't know about you guys, but I like it when there's a theme going on with a army. What theme is there in a list that's built for the sole purpose of winning? It might be the Canis Helix in me running wild, but I don't think it's very thematic when a SW player puts down a min-maxed lists of maxed Long Fangs, Rifleman Dreads, 3 Rune Priests and as many RBs as he can field. Gunlines are lame in general, but playing a gunline in a army that made out of a bunch of brawlers is even lamer.
When I picked up my Space Wolves, I picked them up for the sole reason that they're Space Marines that can fight in close combat. They welcome any challenge, fight any foe and will take the fight to their enemies in a second's notice. This is written in their fluff, enforced in their codex and everyone knows not to mess with the wolves. Space Wolves are essentially Vikings in space. Here's what Vikings did back in the day: Eat, drink, fight. Here is what they do now: Take psychic tests with their Rune Priests and shoot things in Razorbacks while conveniently asking their opponents if they're having fun.
For the real Space Wolf players out there, I salute you. For the RB spammers: Take a long hard look at the picture above and let it sink in. Never forget where you come from.
TWC + WL on Thunderwolf is very SW! Riding a wolf to battle, getting stuck in and beating the crap out of the enemy. If you make howling noises while doing so, then all the better. Having dakka as support is just logical. But, yeah, if you play SW as gunline, that is pretty lame.
ReplyDeleteSW is all about the punch to the face. Loganwing is popular too, no?
Sure, I wouldn't mind seeing a Lord with TWC.. but 4 lords with max individually configured TWC for the sole purpose of wound shenanigans is just sad! Wolfwing isn't that competitive, but it's hell of a lot more thematic and fun to play than gunlines.
ReplyDeleteshit when I played in from the old codex and the new one...
ReplyDelete9 man squads of Grey Hunters throw in a wolf guard gives you two power weapons and a lot of attacks...occasional Rune Priest...
Long Fangs in cover to the back of the table...
a few terminators that ride with the Lead HQ guys...and then maybe a bloodclaw pack for the points left...LRC if I had even more points...
normally i play reasonably fluffy lists, the razorspam waac list of doom only comes out against mech guard, they need a taste of their own medicine from my melta guns.
ReplyDeleteI mean this in the nicest way possible, but given the very copy+paste nature of your lists I find it odd you'd criticize spamming units.
ReplyDeleteI'm not criticizing spammy lists, I'm criticizing Space Wolves being played like a bunch of blue fish-goat Tau.
ReplyDeleteHi, just had my eye fixed on your post.
ReplyDeleteI must agree: army selection is too often a case of getting an auto-win.
It's like playing a computergame with god-mode on, or knowing all the cheats.
I started playing Rogue Trader & then 2nd ed, and I must say: people played different then it seems.
Playing competitive = ok, but where's the competition in auto-win stuff?
If you just want to win, make yourself a nice little trophy, shout "I've won". Saves you from buying all these expensive minis.
I play a "foot"-army with maxed-out packs (2/3 hunter packs, bclawz), mixed wguard packs (yes, I do take powerarmoured wguard), skyclaws (maxed) & swiftclaws (maxed) with wolf- & runepriests.
Works fine.
Greetz!
Its good to see you evolving as a miniature wargamer as of late. Talking about house rules and thematic army composition. Both of those lists are 100% legal but Uber-Win as a theme only goes so far I guess.
ReplyDeleteFor all of its balance issues 40k has one hell of a back story. Paying homage to the fluff may lose you a few games but your moving beyond that now.
From march 2010.
"I've always viewed games as this: The point of the game is to have fun. The objective of the game is to win. Now since I come from a strong RTS background, there's only one outcome at the end of the game: You either win, or you don't. Victory or defeat. Winner or loser. There's no other way to really play a game with objectives otherwise. Now, I understand that wargaming is all about throwing dice, drinking a few beers and having fun, and I do that. But in the end of the day, you want to see your army victorious on the battlefield. You want to see that one Marine raise that flag ontop the corpses of your enemies. That's what the gaming aspect of Warhammer is all about."
Less than a year later and your starting to get fluffy and grow your ears long!
This article along with the photo at the top had me laughing hysterically! Well played sir!
ReplyDeleteThis is actually the reason I am selling my Space Wolves to be honest :(
Ahhhh, some one gets it. I had dinner last night with a fairly new player. He told me about his amazing unbeatable list and how it could out shoot guard. The whole time I politely nodded my head, told him that in a gun battle he would lose against IG, and thought to myself You netdecking S.O.B. I can't wait to table this list...using SWs....and I will!
ReplyDeleteFor all you whining fluff Nazis out there, get over yourselves. Not everyone plays the game for the same reasons, and if you get tired of playing against the same old lists, then just stop playing.
ReplyDeleteSave the fluff for the stories. When it comes to the game, worry about the rules and mechanics.
If you have a problem with effective army lists not matching the background of the army, take that up with GW, not the gamer using the system appropriately. Your rant is directed at the wrong people.
For Christs (or the dark gods) sake, drop that stupid "whining fluff nazi" meme. That's just plain stupid (same goes for tournament player =WAAC guy).
ReplyDeleteDid you ever see a bunch of fluff NAZIS? Like: Guys driving around in a van, stopping at your FLGS and then storming it wearing back (or brown) clothes and a arm wrist picturing an Inquisition I? Folks who -if they deem an army unfluffy- throwing the models down on the floor, crushing them with their "Marschstiefel", before they drag the owner out of the store and giving him a public beating?
THAT would be Nazis... (/cynicism off)
Let's get back to the topic: Did the author write anything about not playing those people again, stop attending at tournaments or anything else associated with a typical (warseer for example) fluff-bunny nerd rage?
In my humble opinion: no!
Could we blame GW? Yes, all day long! Will it change anything unless we really start boycotting them on a large scale (incl. all those kids who are GWs major cash cows)? Nope!
Honestly: 999 out of 1000 People on the web calling GWs business model foul have never worked for GW (or at least not outside of being a redshirt). In the end GW is a company selling models, owned by some stockholders who don't give a damn about the hobby at all.
So while we could write an email/letter to GW 7 days a week, it -most likely- won't do us any good. I would even call it futile. But maybe I'm only a cynic, who watched the game evolve since Ed2 with whole armies going down the drain (squat, stealer cults, legions of the lost&damned) and army choices get changed into glorified "count as" or showcase models (CSM cult armies, alpha legion cultists...).
So unless someone goes around and call people names for spamming unit choices, esp. if they are arrived out of nowhere, blogging about "army style vs army lists" isn't a crime against gaming in my book.
No reason to go out and call him or the people commenting "whining fluff nazis".
The author is constantly speaking out against people who use codices to their fullest potential as if they are playing wrong or are bad sports/people.
ReplyDeleteI am one of those people, and I get tired of this attitude placed against me and others like me when I have done nothing except play the game the way the rules CLEARLY state it is possible and intended. So what if space wolf armies use lots of razorbacks or lots of thunderwolf models?
The author here frequently has useful information that I applaud him for, but this post is just a bunch of garbage. Getting upset at someone building a tournament list specifically to win is being a hypocrite. Tournaments are for competition. If you can't handle it, don't go.
Maybe the term "fluff Nazi" was a bit harsh for you to read, but the attitude is extremely elitist and it seems to fit IMO.
Nazi's were not elitists they were supremists. Get it right man. If you are going to invoke it then at least use the right terms. :)
ReplyDeleteI have no problems with anyone running any lists what so ever. The only thing that bothers me is when I run up against the same list over and over at a tourney. I don't have a problem with you or anyone running it. I have a problem with the lack of skill and creativity.
Frankly, we are talking mostly about 40K which is not a thinking mans game anyways. It does not take skill or intelligence to work a list like the one's stated above. This is why you see so many of the same/similar lists. It is not by chance.
However, you better be prepared and come to expect this at a tourney scene.
Ah, Godwin, how correct you were. Sad.
ReplyDeletei play WL + TWC , Cannis, 3 units of 5 TWC the rest i max out with wolves. there are three theme's in my list. I have no guns, i don't shoot i run. there wolves all of them, I can't score....
ReplyDeletescrew winning if my army isn't a theme army i don't know :) it really preforms rather well