This game just looks so bad. No balancing of army lists, no points, no way to judge relative strength of units.
The rules look like they could be the basis of a good core ruleset but it's unplayable without the ability to build lists.
Basically:
1. Place whatever models you have on the table. 2. Move them close to each other. 3. Roll some dice. 4. Pick up some models. 5. When you run out of time, see who picked up the most models. 6. You both lose for playing this game.
This is pretty much my initial reaction. One of the biggest draws for me for Warhammer in general is the ability to make my own units and heroes the way I want to. From what I see here, this isn't allowing me to do that, nor does it allow me to actually design an army to what is fair. Since there are no points or unit restrictions, you essentially throw all balance into the air and have at it. So with this initial tease, they basically killed off: customization, army building, and what's left of game balance. These are the three things I cared most in a minis game. I'm very sad right now.
I like the idea of warscrolls being added to the boxes of new models so I don't have to buy an expensive book to get them. It also means that armies could see updates out-of-cycle more frequently.
Otherwise, this is disappointing. I'm all for adding skirmish levels to Warhammer but to dilute the game to this level is really... dumb. I've never liked hard coded stats. Having a storm warrior always hit on a 4+ means they are just as effective versus a few Skavenslaves as they are versus chaos warriors. Sure they might have some special abilities which make them better at one or the other but... *shakes head*
This game is not Warhammer. Maybe they'll expand it in the near future but, this is not the game I played for 25+ years.
it does look utter turd. the only remaining glimmer of hope is that this is treated as an entry level board game style product with ultra slimmed down rules, and theres a full book on the way that actually has rules for a proper game in it.
I'd argue that we're seeing entry-level rules for new players and that we'll see a BRB containing the full rules eventually. Still on the fence regarding this but the chaos sculpts can make some marauders and a bsb, or a daemonkin start...
This is what I'm suspecting as the 'AoS: Whole lotta hammers' seems to be aimed at non-wargamers and new players, so simple rules to bring new blood in, then full rules later on introducing WS, BS, psychology etc.
we can hope. and i know its GW, but does it not seem weird to not mention anywhere in this WD that 'hey, old players, dont fret too much about this product, theres a more complete ruleset incoming'?
Ha, I don't think older players are GW's market for fantasy ^^; It's a gambit though. Didn't they mention that all miniatures are still going to be valid as Regalia is the Old World (but new)?
Totally non-impressed here as well. It's an okay new game from the perspective of not having to buy new rules or miniatures, but if I wanted to play WarMaHordes or Malifaux, then I'd be playing those games. Since I do NOT want to play those, I have pretty much no interest in this either.
Sure, there is a dynamic (Sudden Death) that makes you not want to field 1/3 more models than you're opponent, but that dynamic makes it almost worry-free for the person who doesn't stop deploying units to simply field 30% more. Plus, what a pain in the arse to carry 100+ minis someplace to play, and your opponents stops deploying at 30.
On the bonus side, as my group is still planning to just stick with 8E; for the first time in more than ten years it'll be unbelievably cheap to pick up a complete collection of army books on eBay.
Have you played it? Tell me - how is that different to current wargames? Do you not roll dice in yours? Malifaux is the only one I know of which doesn't use dice.
Do you not 'pick up models'? Good grief man. You're a misery. Play it, enjoy it, tell people why or don't play it. Don't whinge about something you've no experience of.
Balance is relative. Who's to say future war scrolls don't say 'compromises ten models'? No one. The obvious is blatant: the unit names are generic so people can play whatever they want to, without restriction. All those armies? Pick and choose what you want to.
Crikey. You're complaining about something that has just allowed you to completely take your trousers off and have *fun*. Talk to your friend as you play. If it's obviously daft, then scale back. Good grief, just wait for it to come out, play it and see.
Yeah I played a few proxy games. There is no manoeuvring since flanks and rear don't matter, the dice rolls are all static because relative model values don't matter, and there is no strategy in list building because there are no point values or other ways to balance opposing forces.
It's baby's first wargame and its boring.
Compare it to 40k, Warmachine, Bolt Action, Kings of War, Flames of War, you name it. It's far too simple, lacks balance and isn't fun to play.
Watch any of the video battle reports and they all agree. Its bland, broken and unbalanced.
This game just looks so bad. No balancing of army lists, no points, no way to judge relative strength of units.
ReplyDeleteThe rules look like they could be the basis of a good core ruleset but it's unplayable without the ability to build lists.
Basically:
1. Place whatever models you have on the table.
2. Move them close to each other.
3. Roll some dice.
4. Pick up some models.
5. When you run out of time, see who picked up the most models.
6. You both lose for playing this game.
This is pretty much my initial reaction. One of the biggest draws for me for Warhammer in general is the ability to make my own units and heroes the way I want to. From what I see here, this isn't allowing me to do that, nor does it allow me to actually design an army to what is fair. Since there are no points or unit restrictions, you essentially throw all balance into the air and have at it. So with this initial tease, they basically killed off: customization, army building, and what's left of game balance. These are the three things I cared most in a minis game. I'm very sad right now.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of warscrolls being added to the boxes of new models so I don't have to buy an expensive book to get them. It also means that armies could see updates out-of-cycle more frequently.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise, this is disappointing. I'm all for adding skirmish levels to Warhammer but to dilute the game to this level is really... dumb. I've never liked hard coded stats. Having a storm warrior always hit on a 4+ means they are just as effective versus a few Skavenslaves as they are versus chaos warriors. Sure they might have some special abilities which make them better at one or the other but... *shakes head*
This game is not Warhammer. Maybe they'll expand it in the near future but, this is not the game I played for 25+ years.
why would anyone bother taking skavenslaves when the 'balancing mechanic' is that the guy with less models on the table gets some in game bonuses?
ReplyDeleteit does look utter turd. the only remaining glimmer of hope is that this is treated as an entry level board game style product with ultra slimmed down rules, and theres a full book on the way that actually has rules for a proper game in it.
ReplyDeleteI'd argue that we're seeing entry-level rules for new players and that we'll see a BRB containing the full rules eventually. Still on the fence regarding this but the chaos sculpts can make some marauders and a bsb, or a daemonkin start...
ReplyDeleteThis is what I'm suspecting as the 'AoS: Whole lotta hammers' seems to be aimed at non-wargamers and new players, so simple rules to bring new blood in, then full rules later on introducing WS, BS, psychology etc.
ReplyDeleteI have hopes, but the hype train got derailed.
we can hope. and i know its GW, but does it not seem weird to not mention anywhere in this WD that 'hey, old players, dont fret too much about this product, theres a more complete ruleset incoming'?
ReplyDeleteHa, I don't think older players are GW's market for fantasy ^^; It's a gambit though. Didn't they mention that all miniatures are still going to be valid as Regalia is the Old World (but new)?
ReplyDeleteTotally non-impressed here as well. It's an okay new game from the perspective of not having to buy new rules or miniatures, but if I wanted to play WarMaHordes or Malifaux, then I'd be playing those games. Since I do NOT want to play those, I have pretty much no interest in this either.
ReplyDeleteSure, there is a dynamic (Sudden Death) that makes you not want to field 1/3 more models than you're opponent, but that dynamic makes it almost worry-free for the person who doesn't stop deploying units to simply field 30% more. Plus, what a pain in the arse to carry 100+ minis someplace to play, and your opponents stops deploying at 30.
On the bonus side, as my group is still planning to just stick with 8E; for the first time in more than ten years it'll be unbelievably cheap to pick up a complete collection of army books on eBay.
Have you played it? Tell me - how is that different to current wargames? Do you not roll dice in yours? Malifaux is the only one I know of which doesn't use dice.
ReplyDeleteDo you not 'pick up models'? Good grief man. You're a misery. Play it, enjoy it, tell people why or don't play it. Don't whinge about something you've no experience of.
Balance is relative. Who's to say future war scrolls don't say 'compromises ten models'? No one. The obvious is blatant: the unit names are generic so people can play whatever they want to, without restriction. All those armies? Pick and choose what you want to.
ReplyDeleteCrikey. You're complaining about something that has just allowed you to completely take your trousers off and have *fun*. Talk to your friend as you play. If it's obviously daft, then scale back. Good grief, just wait for it to come out, play it and see.
Until then, give over.
Yeah I played a few proxy games. There is no manoeuvring since flanks and rear don't matter, the dice rolls are all static because relative model values don't matter, and there is no strategy in list building because there are no point values or other ways to balance opposing forces.
ReplyDeleteIt's baby's first wargame and its boring.
Compare it to 40k, Warmachine, Bolt Action, Kings of War, Flames of War, you name it. It's far too simple, lacks balance and isn't fun to play.
Watch any of the video battle reports and they all agree. Its bland, broken and unbalanced.