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| Because 40K was already doing well.. |
For those of you who haven't heard..
The FoC chart is still in the new 40k edition and if you follow it you have what is known as a "Battle Forged" army. It awards (unlisted) bonuses for using the FoC.You can also take a unbound army, these allow you to take whatever you want from your collection and toss out the FoC (while still adhering to unit size and heeding the relationships described in the new Allies Matrix.
I can confirm this as I've seen the WD article with it in it.
You want a list where you take nothing but Wraithknights? Sure, go ahead. Want to take 8x Ravagers and call it a list? OK. You can do whatever you want!
Umm... no thanks. This is one clusterfuck I don't want to get involved with. Looks like I got back into Warmachine just in the nick of time.
I've always wanted to take a 100% Crisis suit army! Now I can! This obviously opens up the floodgates for shenanigans and cheese but no one is forced to play against lists that they don't like.
ReplyDeleteWhy does anyone think an army with 8-10 of the same unit would be good?
ReplyDeleteIt is dependent on what the bonuses mean. Also depends on what other changes in the ruleset, so this can never be viewed in isolation.
ReplyDeletebecause it will overwhelm your opponents ability to deal with that type of unit. Spam armies succeed that way. If I take 14 Leman Russes any anti-infantry firepower in your list is wasted points.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things I hated about 6th was how the game was more or less decided in the list building phase, Take All Comers armies were a thing of the past and that you were better off building some kind of spam list. Seems like 7th will be the same but on speed. I'm out. Very sad as I've been playing since Rogue Trader.
That's exactly it. You nailed it. It's not the fact you can take 8-10 of the same unit, it really depends on the unit that you can take.
ReplyDeleteSo you're getting out of a game that will allow you to field whatever you want from an army...for a game that allows you to field whatever you want from an army.
ReplyDeleteOr, you could put on your big boy pants, just play "Bound" lists...
ReplyDeleteI don't think this is going to be that big a deal. With 12 mission types, if the first 6 remain objective based and as they are (as in only specific units are still allowed to capture) it won't really change things all that much.
The idea of "living" objectives sounds cool, I would really like it if they were kept secret from ones opponent as this could add more strategic options...
As a CSM player I can take some pretty fun lists, I reserve judgement for the final details of course.
I think it's either going to be the best thing to happen to 40k or it's going to be terrible, if it's brutal, then just play the "Bound" lists and leave the shenanigans for chugging beer.
As a game gets worse, you put in more work to get the same result. There comes a time when it generally just isn't worth the hassle. If it's really brutal, sure, you could try the "Bound" lists, look that much harder for opponents (just like every tournament will absolutely have to run some kind of homebrew comp package) who want to play the same way...but why insist on 40k at all? If there's another game out there that you enjoy and doesn't cause the same headache, play it.
ReplyDeleteI personally don't really see an issue with it.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of being able to build varied and fun lists, I think tournaments could use the Bound format.
I like LoW, Escalation and all the Dataslates...
Some people before this was leaked believed 40k should have a competetive and a fluff bunny side... Well, now they are giving you this.
I personally will keep playing however unbound list can go to straight to hell cause I am not playing them, yeah I know this thing called apocalypse already exists but I wont play that either(1 hour to deploy and 1min to remove all it all, no thanks!)
ReplyDeleteThe new physic phase sounds good in theory as I play Eldar and I know how powerful psychic powers can be.
but I say again......I'm not playing a dozen hive tyrants or 2-3 revenant titan as it would worse than playing a current seercouncil
If someone were to take such a haphazard list as 12 Hive Tyrants, how would one score objectives!?
ReplyDeletePeople are taking "Just the Tip" to a baby making level here, no-one has yet seen the remainder of the rules, unless of course-the new edition IS only 2 pages of rules!
Seriously people, keep calm.
If I want to take a list that has no Heavy Support in favour of 6 Fast Attacks, why shouldn't I be able too!? Blitzkrieg!
All heavy!? Why the fuck not!
I will still need troops.
8-10 non-scoring units a victor does not make...
ReplyDelete^^^ this so goddamn hard, I have been listening to people tell me:
ReplyDelete"Warmahordes has a contstantly evolving rule set"
"Warmahordes can take whatever they want"
"Warmahordes will tuck you in at night"
"Warmahordes isn't an evil profiting company, they are your best friend, confident and lover"
Agreed on the constant update, but last I checked (when I was playing) you had to buy something to get those sweet rules...
Anyhow, I'm done babbling for now, got to get back to work...
Well...with the Enclave Rules (and no special characters) you can take them as troops-you need at least 1 team of 3 and all of them must have the Bonding Knife Ritual (like 1 point per model...) but I totally feel you on that man.
ReplyDeleteI've sort of had...such a tough time with my Chaos of late, and trying so many different things and just not liking how the army plays. I LOVE raptors-but I almost can't justify taking them because I lose out on slots for Spawn to hold up nasty units (Wraith Knights, Wraith Lords, etc) and my Heldrake Fusrahdoh. I even had a nasty strategy where 5 man squads would support 10 man CSM tactical squads...but I don't have enough slots.
Now I can make the army I wanted (Close combat centric) without having to take Tau Enclave allies to get my beserkers across the field. That's the thing the Tau Enclave book gave me-it allowed me to play the army I always wanted with Tau.
I lose often with it-but it pretty much goes down to the last turn-and its always an interesting fight (I only have 1 riptide, I mostly use him if I'm bringing The Eight)
Games played like with The Eight would be fun...I'd like to try an army of just Jump Pack Chaos Lords (Or sorcerers)-though I wouldn't just Doaks that on someone of course. I'd like to see how far 2000 points of (generic) Chaos HQs could go against a normal army. I'd like to see 10 Warpsmiths assaulting out of a landraider.
I want to see what 2000 points of MSU khorne beserkers (Maybe just 1 MoK Lord with the horns from the CS book to make them scoring). A horde of MSU, fearless ws5, Furious Charge guys (with Chainaxes of course). Mass shooting from guard or Eldar only takes out one 5 man unit per turn...and some of them are going to close the gap.
Again, I wouldn't just go "Surprise MF'er!" on some Randy at the store with the stupid/crazy lists, but I now have the means to feel inspired about my CSM army again-without having to proxy them as Loyalists to get better rules.
1. FA exists, and you generally don't get to break it without certain restrictions in place (e.g. tiers, merc/minion contracts)
ReplyDelete2. Less prone to "one thing good, five thing better" at least partially due to the above
well... turns out you are back to warmachine after all. Good. I've enjoyed it a lot and have been playing Skorne. Glad I checked back to see how things were going for you and 40k.
ReplyDelete