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| Takin' dem slaves! |
Here's an exercise everyone can do, regardless of what army you play. Make 3 lists, no double force org, one at 1500, one at 1750 and one at 2000. Analyze what you add/take form your lists and write down the major changes. Check it out:
1495
16 KP
HQ:
Succubus (Agonizer/BP, Haywire) = 105
TROOP:
5x Warriors (Raider NS, Blaster) = 130
5x Warriors (Raider NS, Blaster) = 130
5x Warriors (Raider NS, Blaster) = 130
10x Warriors (Raider NS/SR, Blaster, SC) = 195
9x Wyches (Raider NS, Hekatrix/VB, Haywires) = 195
10x Wyches (Raider NS, Hekatrix/VB, Haywires) = 205
HEAVY:
Ravager (NS) = 115
Ravager (NS) = 115
Voidraven (FF, 2x SF) = 175
++++++++++
1746
18 KP
HQ:
Succubus (Agonizer/BP, Haywire) = 105
TROOP:
5x Warriors (Raider NS, Blaster) = 130
5x Warriors (Raider NS, Blaster) = 130
10x Warriors (Raider NS/SR, Blaster, SC) = 195
10x Warriors (Raider NS/SR, Blaster, SC) = 195
9x Wyches (Raider NS, Hekatrix/VB/BP, Haywires) = 210
10x Wyches (Raider NS, Hekatrix/VB/BP, Haywires) = 220
ELITE:
3x Trueborn (Venom NS/SC, 3x Blaster) = 156
HEAVY:
Ravager (NS) = 115
Ravager (NS) = 115
Voidraven (FF, 2x SF) = 175
++++++++++
1997
21 KP
HQ:
Succubus (Agonizer/BP, Haywire) = 105
Succubus (Agonizer/BP, Haywire) = 105
TROOP:
5x Warriors (Raider NS, Blaster) = 130
5x Warriors (Raider NS, Blaster) = 130
10x Warriors (Raider NS/SR, Blaster, SC) = 195
10x Warriors (Raider NS/SR, Blaster, SC) = 195
9x Wyches (Raider NS, Hekatrix/VB/BP, Haywires) = 210
9x Wyches (Raider NS, Hekatrix/VB/BP, Haywires) = 210
ELITE:
3x Trueborn (Venom NS/SC, 3x Blaster) = 156
3x Trueborn (Venom NS/SC, 3x Blaster) = 156
HEAVY:
Ravager (NS) = 115
Ravager (NS) = 115
Voidraven (FF, 2x SF) = 175
++++++++++
From 1500 to 1750, you'll see the following things:
- The same amount of Raiders, Ravagers and Voidravens. That means that the amount of opening Dark Lances stay the same. No change there in power level.
- However, the second round of darklight weaponry increases noticeably with the addition of the Blasterborn.
- There's also 2x poison gunships over just one, and both squads of Wyches received Blast Pistols for their Hekatrix.
- The biggest addition there is definitely the added Venom; not only does it give me more second turn lances, but also gives me long-range poison shooting platform.
From 1750 to 2000, there'll even more changes:
- In the first round of shooting, the amount of darklight remains the same as the 1750 and even the 1500 list. This is important to keep in mind: The amount of anti-tank doesn't change as the list reaches its maximum potential in the opening volley.
- However, the second round of shooting has 6 more lances in the form of Blasterborn than the 1500 list.
- Compared to the 1500 list, there's also 2x Venoms to add to long-range poison firepower, which is +1 from the 1750 list.
- Upgrade wise, nothing changes except for the addition of one more Succubus. Now I have 2x of them to join the Wyches that adds significantly to their CC potential, but doesn't change unit numbers at all.
- I am still playing with the same ~50 scoring bodies that I am at 1750, which is only 5 more than the 1500 list.
- What does this tell me? My scoring potential at 1500 is substantial, while it decreases at larger games due to the increased firepower of my enemies, but I'm able to bring more destructive weapons of my own. If I were to go from 1750 to 1850, I would probably just add another Succubus to a Wych squad.
So which one of these lists has the best balance of firepower, scoring units and first/second turn potential? I would think it's my 1750 list. This is when the true power of my Dark Eldar is unleashed because I'm able to kite out my squad with upgrades, take 5 more warriors to complete another gunboat, but also take a Blasterborn unit in a Venom. This in turn, increases the number of second turn lances while providing me with additional long-range firepower.
It's a fun exercise, you should try it. I do it every now and then when rebalancing/optimizing my army lists against changes in the meta.
I do the exact same thing, but backwards lol. I always start my armies at 2k and work my way down to1500 pt lists. This ensures that i have a list for larger games, and it can scale down to fit whatever point level my opponent wants to play. I usually stop collecting after i complete and paint a 2k army.
ReplyDeleteI work my way up but I start from 1k points up to 2k. The only reason why I have to make a 2k list is due to the different meta for the game between my country and the US or else I wouod have stopped at 1750 pts.
ReplyDeleteThankfully the US points meta is growing smaller and for that I am glad. I feel that 1750 pts is the sweet spot for a 40k game.
None of these lists can deal with 2+ flyers. Your Anti-Tank capability is poor, netting 2 rhinos in your first turn volley. The requirement to push most of you army forward to use the blasters and haywire sets you up to be punished by pretty much every army. You are gunboating warriors in AV10 deathtraps just asking for them to be slaughtered. Scoring potential in each list is limited by how many LOS blockers there are to hide the fragile little elves behind. Of the 3 lists, maybe the first one, as the others just compound DE's problems without adding any additional tools to help out. Have you tried these lists competitively? Anyway, the basic premise is misguided, as going from 1500 to 2000pts is not just tacking on an extra 500pts, but a complete rethink of the strategy behind the army, and thus a very different looking list.
ReplyDeleteI have been reading this site (among many others) looking for some answers as to how DE can compete, and all these lists are the old basic template DE builds from when it first landed, and have been shown time and again to be middle of the pack at best.
I think you're playing the wrong army if you think list dictates whether or not you can win. You have to utilize cover, terrain, different avenues of attack, turbo-boosts, knowing which units you can lose and which to protect, doing damage while denying damage in return, ..etc. Check some of the other guides on the blog for more details. Dark Eldar weren't designed to sit back and shoot your way to a GT win, sorry.
ReplyDeleteAlthough criticism is good, can you provide more constructive criticism such as how to get more anti-tank in the list ? The list already has a number of dark lances, but then you criticise the number of blasters and haywire (imho the next best anti tank available) because it forces the army to move forward. DE just can not do a purely long range firefight because it's dark lances are too expensive after you have 3 ravagers.
ReplyDeleteYou criticise the "deathtrap" transports and then moan on the fragility of the DE troops saying they need LOS blocking terrain to survive; are you suggesting a DE foot list (eg. heavy in grotesques and beastmasters) ?
1500 & 2000 point lists can have the same strategy, but by just adding on units to a 1500 point list normally the balance between the different parts of the strategy can go astray. This is what Mercer is considering by looking at how the lists change. From you comments I take it you think the additions to the 1500 points list not adding long range firepower is harming the effectiveness of the later lists. What would your suggestions be to increase the long range anti tank and make the units less fragile ?
Rathstar
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ReplyDelete