tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post8621952182958199918..comments2023-10-30T01:14:22.330-07:00Comments on HERO's Gaming Blog: DE: Played a bunch of gamesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post-87429070929374024992014-10-12T12:55:54.886-07:002014-10-12T12:55:54.886-07:00I've tried to put several different lists toge...I've tried to put several different lists together with the models I own for DE and proxied a few lists as well. They just suck for all the reasons listed. Basically in a nutshell they are toughness 3 that need offensive abilities to match their pathetic defense... and everything they had that was even remotely close to that was nerfed without adding defensive abilities. The argument several of my friends have made is that things got cheaper... so... now I can have even more tissue paper that can't hit? how is that even remotely logical?scott christofersennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post-52825891961082752132014-10-11T16:17:54.060-07:002014-10-11T16:17:54.060-07:00I think there was no need to evaluate DE vs. Eldar...I think there was no need to evaluate DE vs. Eldar. They couldn't handle Eldar in 5th, 6th so no expectation that would change. With the changes to the Wave Serpent getting better nothing changed. I used to Ram DE vehicles all day or just peppering them with S6.<br /><br /><br />I think for Eldar you will need to think outside of the box. There is Dstriking Venoms with Blasters (yuck) or Wraithguard/Dragons. Or just quite simply take 2 or 3 units of Legion of the Damned and call it a day. Now I think the DE solution would be better with Clawed Fiends (2 12 S5 attacks or 3 18 S5 attacls with a master at 100 or 70 pts. I have used them to good effect in the past. They are not threatening and offer something different and have uses against all armies.<br /><br /><br />Now Tau require closing the gap but I would really explore the Coven Supplement though. I know you don't like Haemonculous. But the two most interesting ones are the hammy/2 Grot units and the hammy/Talos/Chronos. I personally feel these are the best two. I think Haywire Blasters on one scourges and Heat Lances on the other gives flexibility. I think Armor of Misery has overall flexibility as well combined with these. Why, DE are disposable all the way down to their HQ's. The -2 for the armor and -1 for unit could cause Tau lots of issues as there is a reliable delivery system for both<br /><br /><br />I would consider it. I don't see the fuss about Reavers really. If they had the old Bladevane rule I would say yes. But I think they got worse. Mainly in the way that Webway portals now work. I think Scourges with Heat Lances are worse as well due to this change. <br /><br /><br />I think you just disregards Objective Secured and take 2 troops only and spend the points elsewhere.Brodricknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post-46296471648953297832014-10-11T14:30:03.827-07:002014-10-11T14:30:03.827-07:00Well, I don't know in terms of real $$s, but p...Well, I don't know in terms of real $$s, but points wise, with no upgrades, it should be exactly 600 points. Now, if you are doing this already (i.e. going the "Talostar" route), then I highly recommend upgrading all the TLed Splinter Cannons to TLed Haywire Blasters for another 50 points... this gives you 5 TLed Haywire shots at 24" a turn, which could quite easily kill a Wave Serpent (or Land Raider) a turn as they move and even on the turn they charge can give them some good ranged punch.... in a DE list which is strong against infantry because of Poison and good AP2 shooting already, having aRudyard Olmsteadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post-36266835179048227352014-10-11T12:57:30.481-07:002014-10-11T12:57:30.481-07:00How much is said unit? Both in price and in points...How much is said unit? Both in price and in points? I've heard this mentioned before and it looks like a decent option, but I really hate the fact they're selling that day 1 dlc so hard.HEROhttp://lkhero.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post-26341683737238099262014-10-11T09:55:34.444-07:002014-10-11T09:55:34.444-07:00Great points HERO.
One other thing to consider (I...Great points HERO.<br /><br />One other thing to consider (I know you don't love Haemonculi, but they are a significant part of the DE book and are options if you want to be competitive) is the formations from the new Coven supplement, especially the one with 5 Talos in a single unit with Scout. Take these, move 6" for Scout, 6" move, D6" run, then turn 2 move another 6" and hopefully assault multiple wave serpents.<br /><br />They should have to absorb one full turn of shooting, but with FNP, T7, 3+ armor save, and 15 total wounds, they should be able to absorb A LOT of Wave Serpent shooting... this also takes away that firepower from you fragile Raiders/Ravagers, allowing them to get into position and do their thing.Rudyard Olmsteadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post-58564587474905930562014-10-11T09:00:08.197-07:002014-10-11T09:00:08.197-07:00Yup, Eternal Mission. I also think that modified ...Yup, Eternal Mission. I also think that modified BAO missions will be slightly better for DE.HEROhttp://lkhero.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post-22455808355638647622014-10-11T08:58:06.580-07:002014-10-11T08:58:06.580-07:00Well, the army will have a lot of Ignore Cover sho...Well, the army will have a lot of Ignore Cover shooting still, since almost everything has SMS which is twin-linked and Ignore Cover. The S5 is not as good for sure, but still enough to hurt almost all of our vehicles.<br /><br />Thanks for your suggestions, they have been thought about. God I hate Mandrakes, I think they're so worthless in tons of lists, especially meched ones. Swooping Hawks seem like a better option for sure, and apply in more lists.HEROhttp://lkhero.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post-86962787736498376912014-10-11T08:53:58.705-07:002014-10-11T08:53:58.705-07:00Yeah, but the Reavers are just as vulnerable to hi...Yeah, but the Reavers are just as vulnerable to high-volume shots, even if the Jink is there. Both Tau and Eldar and throw a crazy amount of firepower out that just forces you to row saves. Statistically, you will have a poor showing no matter what. Just dragging yourself across the battlefield vs. a single WS shooting at you *should* on paper, kill 6 Reavers by himself. Assuming he has a Shuriken Cannon and moved 6", he can let out 4 twin-linked S6 shots from the Scatter Laser, which will paint the Shuriken for another 3, and then 4 on average from the Serpent Shield that Ignore Cover. I get your train of thought though, and I will agree that overwhelming his target priority is absolutely crucial. Perhaps hiding them and then zooming across while DS'ing in at the same time.<br /><br />Allied options are definitely here, which is why my closest game was with Eldar allies. That WWP suggestion you made with Wraithguard is probably going to be one of the most common applications of consistent damage for Eldar players. Something that further attests the concept that I think the DE codex is actually an Eldar supplement.HEROhttp://lkhero.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post-13830960490610180282014-10-11T08:24:46.568-07:002014-10-11T08:24:46.568-07:002 - Eldar Wave Serpents -- The big bad boogey man ...2 - Eldar Wave Serpents -- The big bad boogey man of almost any army list, I think DE and their Eldar allies actually have some decent counters to 5-7 Wave Serpent Lists:<br /><br />a) Reaver Jetbikes with Heatlances and Cluster Caltrops -- So, with Eldar Jetbikes these guys can literally be across the table Turn 1 and deep in your opponent's DZ.... use Jink + Skilled Rider to absorb the non-Serpent Shield shooting (3+ cover is quite solid for DE units) and then Turn 2 use Heat Lances and S4/S6 Rending Hammer of Wrath hits... Heat lances should be able to knock of a few HPs and them you can multi-charge several Wave Serpents, potentially glancing all of them to death in a single charge (D6 Hammer of Wrath S6 auto-hits against AV10 rear armor per Cluster Caltrop can do a some real damage). I think the key is to take multiple Reaver units, so that you overwhelm his target priority capabilities (say 4-6 Reaver squads of 6 bikes/2 Heat Lances/2 Caltrops each, using the Real Space Raider detachments)<br /><br />b) Allied Wraithguard with Wave Serpent, Blaster Archon and WWP -- Unit arrives by DS, no scatter, Disembarks from the Wave Serpent, and deletes two enemy Wave Serpents... one with Wraitguard and one with friendly Wave Serpent (shooting into enemy rear armor). Next turn, either mount up and move toward another target or footslog to engage another pair of Wave Serpents.Rudyard Olmsteadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post-85479998692461033152014-10-11T07:34:12.375-07:002014-10-11T07:34:12.375-07:00HERO, appreciate you sharing these reports, very i...HERO, appreciate you sharing these reports, very informative. Sounds like pure DE and even Eldar/DE struggle a bit here against Tau and pure Eldar. I appreciate that you do not taylor lists to an opponent, but stick to real "all-comers" lists. As I read through your report above, here are some ideas I had about how DE or DE with Eldar allies could take on Tau and pure Eldar opponents:<br /><br />1 - Tau Markerlights -- Of what I have seen, these are often the key to a Tau army... if they can be neutralized quickly, then Tau has so much less options (i.e. less accurate shooting, no ignore cover unless you have a MSS on a Commander, etc.). With that in mind, I think there are a couple of key "anti-markerlight" units that might work for you:<br /><br />a) Allied Swooping Hawks -- With their Skyleap, S4 AP4 Ignore Cover grenade packs, and 3 shot Lasblasters, they are the ideal unit to hunt Pathfinders and/or Marker Drones... drop that Large Blast Template as you DS in with 10 Swooping Hawks, then fire a volley of 30 Lasblaster shots... if you get a good hit with the Grenade Pack Template, you are likely to kill 4-5 Marker Drones and then another 3-4 with the Lasblaster shooting... that's 7-9 Marker Drones dead in a single volley, which is quite crippling to the Markerlight capability if you are using the Tau list described above in your post.<br /><br />b) Mandrakes -- Not as dramatic as Swooping Hawks, but they can impact the came turn 1 (infiltrate vs DS) and can put out 20 S4 AP4 shots at turn (with Soul Blaze thrown in for a few extra wounds, potentially)... against Marker Drones, that's about 7 dead models in a single volley (not counting an cover saves). Even better, with Shrouded/Stealth, Mandrakes can absorb LOTs of Tau firepower on 2+ cover saves, either distracting it from you Raiders or even surviving it and then charging the Tau gun-line Turn 2.Rudyard Olmsteadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8229245860561585942.post-46749865460494780302014-10-11T04:56:30.803-07:002014-10-11T04:56:30.803-07:00These games were played using the Eternal War miss...These games were played using the Eternal War missions I presume? In my experience Maelstrom style missions lead to much more dynamic gameplay which Dark Eldar thrive on. The Eternal War missions on the other hand are very static and favour Gunlines and passive play.Mushnoreply@blogger.com